[Unified Purpose] Morgan Thompson from Prevention Links Ep. 19

Daniela (Host): Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Unified Purpose podcast. This is a podcast where we share inspiring tales of compassion, resilience, community spirit, all great things. I’m your host, and I’m Daniela. You guys know who I am. I’m Penji’s partnership coordinator. And today here, I’m joined with a very special guest, Morgan Thompson from Prevention Links. Hi, Morgan. How are you?

Morgan Thompson: I’m good. How are you?

Daniela: I’m good. I’m so excited to film this episode. I love the We have a podcast network and we have different themed podcasts and Unified Purpose is my favorite one. I just love talking to people like you from organizations and kind of giving you guys platform. You guys all do amazing work and I think it deserves a spot in our company, in the world to be talked about.

About Prevention Links

Daniela: To give people context, get started on this. Can you tell us about what Prevention Links does, what you guys are all about, how you help people? Anything that you want to share with us, floor is yours to introduce yourself.

Morgan: Awesome. Thank you. So I’m Morgan Thompson. I’m the CEO of Prevention Links. And we’re a nonprofit that is working on one of the number one public health crises that the United States is facing, and that being substance use disorder, more commonly known as addiction. And I’ll talk about them interchangeably. They really mean the same thing, but relationships with alcohol, tobacco, and other drugs that cause negative consequences in people’s lives. And our work is really around both prevention, helping people to develop resiliency and mental wellbeing so that they can have healthy relationships with substances. And also for those who have struggled with addictions, helping them through the recovery journey.

Recreational vs. Problematic Substance Use

Daniela: That’s interesting. I wanted, I have like a question cause I did sort of see, obviously when I was doing research on your foundation and everything, do you guys help people kind of be recreational substance users? Do you think that that’s a thing or are you guys more pushing more for like a fully sober, like sobriety type of thing? Obviously I know it changes between you’re not gonna make a person be a casual user of a drug or an alcohol or any substance. But I’m curious if that’s like a thing that is actually sustainable for some people to kind of be casual users.

Morgan: Yeah, I mean, definitely. So our work really focuses on meeting people where they are and helping them work within whatever their goal is as it relates to their substance use. Or sometimes we’re not even talking about substance use, especially with our prevention work. We’re talking more about mental health and wellbeing, and we don’t know anything about whether someone is using substances or not.

That said, there are lots of people who use different types of substances and they don’t have challenges with it. It doesn’t get in the way of their ability to like, you know, live their best life, have a job, go to school, have relationships with the family. It’s just something that adds to their life doesn’t take away from it. And I think there’s also many people who do have negative consequences associated with their use. You know, maybe they do have a hard time finding a job. Maybe they’re unhoused because of their substance use, or that’s a contributing factor, not the whole reason. But like we provide services to people in that situation too, and not services that are forcing them into something they don’t want. We’re not pushing them to become abstinent if that’s not their goal. We’re really about building relationships and connection and helping people to know that whatever the support is that they’re looking for, we can be a link and that’s part of our name, Prevention Links, to that resource, even if it’s not something we provide. So if they are having trouble with housing, we have partners who we work with who can help get them connected to those resources. I hope I answered your question.

Daniela: Yeah, you did. I just, I always have this question when it comes to substance use, because I feel like I’ve seen kind of a lot of people be this sort of like all or nothing type of behavior. And I’ve always felt like there are people who can sort of be recreational drug users and I don’t mean just like hard drugs I mean like drinking and and smoking like I’ve seen people who are able to do that without being compulsive about it so I’m like is it really everybody’s going to become an addict the second that you have like a glass of wine. Let’s not even say a bottle. So it’s just always a question that I have. And you were obviously so much more knowledgeable than I am about it. And I was really curious.

Morgan: It’s a really good question. And I think it’s one that like we need to talk more about because people assume that it’s that all or nothing thing. And so even like a couple of weeks ago, the surgeon general made this announcement of an advisory that there’s a link between excess consumption of alcohol and cancer. And so that’s gonna make some people think twice about when and how much they drink alcohol who don’t have a problem with it, but without having more information or like how much is too much and what are the implications of that advisory. You know, without having like a dialogue around that, people either aren’t going to know that that link exists or they’re not going to know how it, you know, how to make it work for them and how to like use that to make their own health better.

Functioning Addiction

Daniela: No, totally. I also have like, I think another question that I have just towards, you know, addiction is what happens with kind of functioning addicts? I think we’re seeing more and more of that in the world. I remember when I was a child, a lot of adults in my life are kind of that kind of functioning addict. I remember kind of seeing like, you know, the, it’s really common to see sort of the adult man who’s always drinking beer, but he never misses a day at work. You know, he’s always got the bills paid. Everything’s kind of functioning, but he’s clearly an alcoholic. He cannot stop drinking beer like every day. And that’s I think that’s a very interesting form of substance abuse that we kind of take for granted because I feel like that is the type of addict that thinks that they’re not an addict because they have it all under control. And it’s just a question that I have towards, how do you tackle people who have that kind of addiction that, I mean, they probably don’t even feel the need to fix it because it’s not really affecting their lives, or they don’t think that it’s affecting their lives.

Morgan: Yeah, it’s really difficult. And I think part of it is this like morality idea that we have around drinking and all substance use. But, you know, this idea that it’s either a problem or it isn’t. And if it’s a problem, it’s because I’m somehow weak or I’ve done something wrong or there’s something wrong with me. And I think that binary of either it’s a problem or it isn’t is where we miss opportunities to help people in that situation. Because if nothing is wrong in this person’s life as a result of their drinking, why would they do anything differently? I certainly wouldn’t if I was in that situation.

But what often happens is because it’s such a sensitive topic, our doctors and our primary care providers aren’t as proactive about having those conversations about what the long term effect on health can be. And we start to see issues like liver, you know, liver failure or even like I just said, cancer and some of these other health conditions. And we attribute it to chance to, oh, I just, you know, something went wrong, you know, with my genetics. And that’s why this happened to my health. I’ve been a healthy person. I exercise, I eat well. But if you’re drinking every day, that’s going to take a toll on your body one way or another. And so I think that’s one missed opportunity is like really being able to have conversations with your doctor, with your primary care provider about what the risks are of over time that pattern of alcohol consumption could mean.

The other area that it often plays out is an interpersonal relationship. And we all do it in different ways, right? Like some of us will have a glass of wine to unwind. Some of us will eat a sleeve of Oreos. Some of us will watch Netflix until we fall asleep. Whatever it takes to turn off our brains that often has the unintended consequence of putting some separation between us and the people that we love. not being able to have direct conversations about things that are bothering us, not being able to be fully present to support, whether it’s our children or our partner or friends. And so that’s one that also kind of creeps up, right? Like for years, it’ll kind of be okay. It’ll kind of be okay. Don’t really notice the problems as they happen. And then one day you wake up and it’s like, who do I have in my life? Or my partner is leaving me or my children don’t want anything to do with me anymore. And we don’t, when someone is in that cycle of like low grade or even high, you know, alcohol use on a regular basis, they don’t see that as it’s coming.

What’s great is I think a lot of times, and historically, family members have been painted as a part of the problem, right? Like they enable or they cause stress to the person that contributes to their drinking or whatever else. But the reality is most people with a substance use problem live with somebody who could make a difference in their ability to see that they need help or that change is possible for them. And so there are programs and there are like trainings that family members can take to learn how to communicate better, to learn how to manage their own reactions to their loved one’s substance use that have actually been proven to help people who have a substance use problem seek help that wouldn’t otherwise. So I think that idea that like, there’s so many people that people with that functional user persona interact with, who could make a difference in their lives. And maybe they never have to go to like a treatment program or anything serious. Maybe they don’t even have to be abstinent. But just by nature of the doctors that they have, being able to have conversations, their family members being able to be honest with them, and for them to be more in touch with like the impacts of their use on their life, you know, they can be helped much sooner and before there are dire consequences.

Prevention Links Programs and Services

Daniela: That’s amazing. And you guys offer a lot of programs to help people in this situation, right? And I know that you guys also have said that you offer things that are not directly related to substance use. Can you tell me a little bit about that? What kind of help are you offering? What do you guys do for that?

Morgan: Sure. So well, really, we start very young. So we work with families typically in communities where there might be, you know, higher levels of poverty or, you know, other socioeconomic factors that put them at a higher risk for substance use, mental health issues, community violence. So we try to build resiliency. And by that, I mean internal resources and relationships that really solidify people against the negative experiences that they have in their lives. So yes, you might be living in a community where there’s a lot of violence. You might be living in a community where there’s substance use. And for some children growing up in that environment, the likelihood is that those circumstances will make it more likely that they will also have a drug problem or a mental health problem whatever it may be but at the same time if there are programs and services and community leaders and just like organic resources in the community that help children to feel supported to help them to feel secure, that help them to feel affirmed as people and help them to know that there are people in their lives they can count on, they’re less likely to experience those negative outcomes and other negative health outcomes, even things like unwanted pregnancy in adolescence or health conditions, heart disease.

There’s a relationship between what we refer to as trauma. And that can be all different types of trauma, everything from abuse and neglect to witnessing violence to the just negative experiences of being alienated by peers or by whomever. those experiences affect every aspect of our health, mental health, physical health, social, our ability to make money, our job satisfaction, all ties back to those things that happened in those formative years. And so where there are experiences of trauma, programs that have been shown to help build that resiliency can counteract that trauma. And it might not mean that children don’t eventually develop a problem with substances or whatever it may be, but it’s more likely that the help that they access will work, that if they get treatment, that they will recover. And so we’re planting those seeds of resilience through what seem to be very simple things like parent-child activities, a cooking class for mom and her four-year-old, or actual parenting classes, as well as when families are in crisis, linking them to concrete resources like housing, like job training, financial resources, food, whatever it may be. So those are some of the ways that we help.

So we do those programs in the community, but we also do programs in schools. Some of them are more general, related to coping skills, related to how to have healthy relationships, but also some of them are more specific. I know when I was growing up, the big substance use program was DARE. There’s been a lot of research on DARE. It’s probably not an effective program, certainly wasn’t for me. But we’ve kind of expanded the number of programs we have available to offer students throughout their education. When we meet with kindergartners and little ones, we do puppet programs that are relatable for them that teach them about the different elements of addiction and what that looks like. We also have more direct conversations with our high schoolers about how might substance use relate to dating violence. And that tends to be a really important conversation that young people want to have. So we make prevention education relevant, relatable, and appropriate to the student’s age. And we offer those programs all across the county that we work in. And so that’s for youth, but we also do programs like that for older adults. We don’t often think about people developing substance use issues later in life, but they do. And actually some of the higher rates of overdose now, at least here in New Jersey, are among the older adult population. So we really prioritize working with our older adults as well.

Addressing Root Causes

Daniela: That’s amazing. What I think is great about that is that you are kind of tackling the problem at the root, I think. So I am from El Salvador. So over here, I think we have a lot of like, you know, poverty issues, drug addiction, like same kind of like a lot of problems like that. And you always see kind of different type of organizations and things trying to do pop up and give help. And a lot of the problems a lot of times with kind of the government oriented solutions and a lot of nonprofits is that they are not tackling the root of the cause, which I think is great that you’re doing. I feel like we see that kind of like they’re coming in to help people stop becoming addicts. They’re coming in to help people once they already had the unplanned pregnancies and like once things have gotten out of control. But the reality is that these are, you know, like it’s the environment that you’re living in, right? It’s how you’ve grown up. It’s the fact that you are carrying trauma from a very young age and you kind of learn to live your life this way and you don’t know a different way out. And it’s such a systemic issue that in order to actually sort of reduce the amount of people that were going to become pregnant addicted to substances that we’re going to have all of these other issues that you mentioned, like health issues, you know, unplanned pregnancies, like getting into abusive relationships, it has to come from the idea of like, getting these children to learn that this is, like, you know, how to manage themselves when these situations present themselves so that they’re not going to fall victims to it. So I think that’s great. I think, like, I always say that, like, we need, we obviously need to tackle the problem that’s happening now, but we also need to figure out a way for it not to happen to the future generations and the people that are coming along.

Right. And also for like, like you said, like I do think adults can become addicts as they get older. I mean, I’ve heard a lot about people falling into substance abuse after they get prescribed medications for any kind of like chronic illness or they just broke their arm, they had a wisdom teeth removal thing and then they’re getting diagnosed, they’re getting prescribed things like oxy and then they’re just falling into this pit of just being addicted to opiates. I know that that’s like a very common thing. So it totally does make sense that you would have to work with different types of people. And I know that especially in America right now, that’s a really big problem.

Morgan: It’s a huge problem. Yeah, we’re losing more than a hundred thousand people every year to overdose alone across the United States. So it’s definitely, it’s not getting better here as much as we’ve tried to implement different solutions. And, you know, there are some signs that the rate of increase of overdose is slowing down. We’re still losing that many people every year, which is not acceptable.

Government Policies and Impact

Daniela: Yeah. Do you think that this has to do with any kind of governmental kind of laws or bills or anything that has been done? Or has it affected the way that you do your organization? Or do you think that like the government politics and all that side of it can kind of stay separate from what you guys do?

Morgan: You know, there have been some important changes in terms of laws and policies. Like I think about here in New Jersey, it was only a decade ago that we passed the Good Samaritan law, which allowed for the overdose reversal drug naloxone to be available to lay people. And so prior to that, it was only, you know, first responders who were carrying naloxone. So you had to wait until first responder arrived, if they were called at all. And so by getting more naloxone in the hands of people who can respond quicker, which is you know, store owners and employees and, you know, school personnel and family members, you know, who have a loved one in the home who’s using. So I think that’s an example of a law that has made a big difference, if only it had been passed a lot sooner.

And then there’s little things like, it’s not little, but very nuanced things like what Medicaid will and will not pay for. And there were some issues with reimbursement here in New Jersey that prevented a lot of the rehab admissions that were available. People were just waiting weeks and oftentimes dying waiting for a bed at a rehab program because the beds were there. They were vacant, you know, they were available, but there was no accessible reimbursement mechanism for the programs to get paid. And so there were some changes to the regulations there and there were some waivers that were put into place that changed the way that worked. And now here in New Jersey, there are very few delays. People get into treatment very quickly when they’re seeking it.

So, and also, this isn’t really a law, but it’s more like related to research and best practices. We understand now that people oftentimes do not need to go to an inpatient treatment program to recover. As a matter of fact, they can go to their primary care doctor. They can be prescribed medications that help to manage their cravings because that’s so much of what drives compulsive substance use is cravings. And once those cravings are managed, that’s half the battle. If in addition to that, they’re willing to see a therapist once a week, that’s going to help with some of those deeper interpersonal issues and trauma that we talked about. So people don’t have to turn their lives upside down to be able to recover from substance use disorder. And I think that that’s something that we didn’t necessarily know years ago because there wasn’t enough research and there also weren’t as many FDA-approved medications for substance use disorders. So when it comes to laws and regulations, those are some of the major impacts that I think about.

Treatment Options and Peer Support

Daniela: That’s great. I mean, I think for the majority, it seems like you have gotten a lot of help, at least in New Jersey, which, I mean, it sounds great. What I’m curious about, because you brought up Oh, not every person needs to kind of get inpatient treatment to work, you know, to lose that substance abuse. Do you guys help with kind of determining whether a person that is asking for your help should be in an inpatient program or if they’re able to kind of tackle that outside? And how do you actually convince people to well not convince but I guess sort of you know help people when they do need to sort of seek that kind of treatment I feel like going into an in-person treatment facility for me if I was an addict I would be terrified I would be like I don’t know if this is like what I want to do because it feels like a bigger commitment than just quitting by yourself right it’s like you’re going into a facility where they’re gonna like kind of do things and you’re going to live there twenty four seven for a certain period of time. How do you work around that topic? I think it’s I would probably be really, really reluctant to do that. That would probably be my last resort if I was an advocate.

Morgan: Yeah, absolutely. And it should be the last resort because it’s very intensive and it should only be it’s so disruptive to people’s lives. So it should only be when it’s really necessary. So here at Prevention Links, we employ a team of peer recovery specialists. And so these are people who have been through substance use challenges themselves. They are in different lengths of recovery, different types of recovery. Some of them are in abstinence-based recovery. Some of them are in non-abstinence-based recovery. Some of them recover through twelve-step programs. Some of them recover through meditation and or therapy or faith-based recovery path. So there’s a lot of variety and diversity in our peer recovery specialist team. And they’re not counselors. They’re not there to make a determination about whether someone needs treatment. what they do is help normalize the process. They’re able to talk with someone about like, well, if you did do that, here’s what it would look like. And maybe if they have experience with it, here’s what my experiences were like when I was in an inpatient treatment program, or here’s what helped me to kind of decide that that was what was necessary. Or that I realized that I didn’t actually need to do that, that I was able to get this medication from my doctor that helped to manage my cravings. And it was fine. I was able to keep my job. I was able to you know, I didn’t have to leave my family.

So hearing firsthand from someone who’s been through it, someone credible who can really speak to like, the details and the nuances of all of it, I think can be very helpful for people who are new and who have some of those fears that you talked about, who like really don’t know anything about treatment programs or what the process could look like. And also for people who have had very negative experiences, maybe ten, twenty, thirty years ago with treatment systems that were not providing services in an evidence-based way, which was definitely in some cases true. So peers can really help with that normalizing, answering questions, helping them to know what to expect, educating about the different resources that are available. But again, they wouldn’t be kind of assessing to determine whether an inpatient program would be appropriate. All the inpatient programs that operate are supposed to be following, here in the US, the American Society of Addiction Medicine’s criteria. And so they have licensed counselors at these treatment programs. So the peer might sit with the person who says, OK, maybe I want to go to treatment. They’ll sit with them on the phone while they call and speak to this licensed counselor. And that licensed counselor is going to ask a lot of questions to help determine whether that person is a good fit for that program and whether it’s appropriate for that person’s situation. So that’s how we tackle that.

The Recovery Journey and Personal Revelation

Daniela: That’s so interesting. I mean, I know that for any kind of help with addiction, it has to come from the person themselves. I’ve heard that it, it, you know, like you can provide as much support as you can, but ultimately it has to be that person who makes that choice to sort of get out of that. But I always just wonder what, at what point, you know, when it’s, it’s like, okay, this has to stop. Cause I think it’s so difficult to determine that especially if you’re in the trenches in the midst of it. Like you, I think we were, we spoke about this earlier. You mentioned how you, it’s hard to see the effects that this is going to have in your life until they’re happening until your kids don’t want to talk to you until you know your life is in shambles you are getting fired from every job that you have you’re struggling financially it’s life is horrible I think so I’ve always just want to know how people sort of I do that because I admire any recovering addict I think it’s it’s such a difficult thing to do it’s also very stigmatized but I think we don’t talk about enough about how much strength it actually takes to recover from that I mean if you’ve never been addicted to anything it’s really easy to be like oh you suck but I mean in a way we all have our our like you said we all fall victim to our own habits so imagine just like never eating a chocolate again right it’s kind of like that yeah yeah

And I think also to your point, the stigma prevents us from having the conversations that could help people to know sooner. And also a big reason for that, we don’t know what strength it takes for someone to recover, but we don’t know how many people are recovering. Like, okay, we’ve been talking this whole time. I don’t know if you know, but I’ve been in recovery for fifteen years from opiates.

Morgan: Right. So like you just never know because we don’t talk loudly enough. We don’t talk as loudly about recovery as we do about the damage of addiction. And I would love to see like we’re doing right now, like more airtime being given to the fact that people can and do recover. And that helps other people to know that they can, too. So I hope that, you know, there will be more opportunities like this. So thank you for making that space available.

Reintegration and Breaking the Cycle

Daniela: Oh my gosh, no, thank you so much for being a part of this. I mean, I’m very happy to have you talk to you about all of this. I think it’s such a great foundation to kind of give you guys a space to talk about. And like you said, I think something that really resonated with me when we were kind of looking for someone to interview for the podcast was actually that you really help a recovering addict reintegrate themselves into society. Because like, you know, to your point, we don’t talk about recovery enough. We stigmatize an addict. We kind of just put them in this corner of you are a bad person. You are a bad influence. And then these people who have worked so hard to get better, cannot because you’re not also allowing them you’re not giving them a space to thrive to prove themselves to grow again to be a part of a you know be a functioning member of society be well adjusted and then you know it’s a cycle then they’re going back and I think it’s so important to kind of allow a person to get back up after falling down it takes a lot of courage and it definitely takes a lot of work and should be rewarded it should be you know you should be supporting people so I’m Really happy that you guys do that. Really happy that you came on the podcast. And I think it’s a great note to end this on, but I don’t want to end it without giving you the space to promote anything.

Call to Action and Getting Involved

Daniela: If anything that we spoke about resonated with anyone who’s struggling with addiction in New Jersey, who would want to work with you, who wants help, who wants to join in one of the programs, if you want help with funding, if you’re looking for personnel, whatever it is that you want to plug the floor is yours.

Morgan: Awesome. Well, thank you. So we’re a nonprofit. We’re always looking for support, volunteers, donations, and just community partners who want to, you know, be a part of this work. And we’re certainly not a unique organization. There are programs like ours all across the state, all across the United States and even abroad, recovery community organization, prevention organizations doing that work at the local level. And I think this work is best done locally. So wherever you are, if you’re hearing this, please, if you’re inspired, get involved, find out where your local prevention and recovery organizations are. And if you’re in our backyard, we would love to hear from you. We’re based out of Union County, New Jersey, but we have programs throughout the state. And just, you know, really appreciate again, the opportunity to talk about our work.

Closing

Daniela: Awesome. Yeah. Thank you so much for being here, Morgan. It was so good to have you. Everybody, you already heard it. I will be adding the links to your website and everything on the description of this video so that people can just easily click, go find you. And everyone, I will see you on the next episode.

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