Shannon: Hello, everyone and welcome to the Fully Managed by Penji podcast, the podcast where we discuss marketing and business tips to help assist you on your business journey. I’m your host, Shannon, Penji’s partnership coordinator, and I’m joined here today with a very special guest, Sarah Jolly from Jolly Creative Agency.

And must I say me and Sarah have been talking and chatting so much since we met and she is the jolliest. I don’t know if it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy, but it’s incredible. Is that your real last name? That is also, we are already friends. We are already fast friends. Is that your real last name?

Sarah: That is my last name. Yeah. And I got married three years ago and I told my husband, I’m gonna be keeping my last name. I’m going to continue to be jolly. Even though I was like, don’t take that personally. I love you very much. I love your last name very much. But we’re already here. I already feel like that’s kind of part of who I am.

Shannon: That’s nice. And I get it. I don’t know how I would feel about losing my last name. I think my dad would be upset. He’s good. He loves keeping the legacy. He is big on the legacy. But you are one of the Jolliest agency creators that I’ve ever met, probably, so it really is a self-fulfilling prophecy that’s kind of incredible.

Sarah: Thanks Shannon. It’s good that your last name isn’t negative. Grumps grumpy. You, Sarah Grumpy. Is that your twin?

Shannon: You’re able to, she’ll probably be like, in the comments, Sarah Grumps is like, that’s rude. I’m out here and keeping it positive. There’s a very common name. It’s a common name. It’s also my sister’s name. Okay, so first and foremost, please tell us a little bit about you. You can give a fun fact if you want. You can also tell us about your agency and tell us kind of where it is in its cycle, kind of yourday-to-dayy right now, all that good stuff.

Background on Sarah and Jolly Creative Agency

Sarah: Okay, cool. So, a little background about me. I have been working with the Jolly Creative Agency, which now feels like its own entity, for 10 years, or a little over a decade, I should say. It started really organically. I was just super interested in design. As a kid I’ve always been drawn to it. I was able to work for a business and ended up running the designs in that business and just a self-learner, completely self-taught at the time. You couldn’t like Google how to do X, Y, and Z. So I actually had a book of CSS and learning how to code, and I read the whole thing and loved it.

And I fell so in love with it. I was always great at math in school, and I just feel like design – I dunno how to explain this, and maybe there’s other people with a brain like mine out there – design feels mathematic to me. So once everything’s like right and in the right place, it feels like an equation that’s done really well.

So, anyways, I was just drawn to it as a topic. I freelanced for a year and then was just blessed with business and referrals and things like that. And my business partner, Ren Jolly is my mom. We’re a family-run business. I came to her and said, “Hey, I think maybe we could grow this into something, something bigger than freelance and would you want to start an agency together and really do this?” And she has a management background, so yeah, that was kind of our origin story. We got together and created something new.

And at the time it was very lonely in the digital tech landscape. It was two women in rooms and rooms and rooms of men. And I love our men, so I’m not saying that in a negative way, but it was very kind of isolating and strange to start with.

I remember in the very beginning we would walk into rooms and be talking about digital marketing and websites. And I remember meetings, we would actually have to explain why a website is pivotal to a business. And that’s almost like laughable now. Like that’s not even a conversation you would have. But it’s wild, a decade in this business, and I’m sure other agency owners or people who just work in this industry that have done it for the same amount of time or maybe even longer, it’s shocking how fast tech has changed and of course how the pandemic grew and changed so much about our industry.

But yeah, it’s been quite a journey to get here now. I love what we do. I’m super passionate. At this point, I’m completely involved in sales and customer relationships and team training. So I’m very long gone from the days of being on the back end of websites and things like that, although it’s still a passion of mine, I still keep up with it with our team. I’m really enjoying the growth side of the business, the sales side of the business, and constantly in relationship with our customers.

Shannon: Oh, that’s so nice. That’s a very wholesome start. I love that. I like you guys are the jollies together. Jolly. Yeah, it’s awesome. I can’t get over that. But it’s also really nice that you love all the aspects of your agency. Can you kind of share how you’ve been able to grow it thus far? Like do you have any strategy or do you have any plans that it would become what it is and kind of how you worked your way through that?

Growth Strategy and Business Approach

Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. We decided fairly early on a couple big things about growth. One is we decided to scale back in order to grow. And what I mean by that is scale back services. So many agencies, especially in their infancy, decide they’re gonna do everything in the kitchen sink, just to make money and survive that beginning times.

We learned really quickly out the gate that we’re gonna really niche down. There were several years in the beginning where all we did was web design and we had a few services outside of that, but we really focused on our website design development. Really outlining that to just be a super smooth process for our team, for our customers. Ironing out all of the choke holds in that process, and really getting something supreme. And then we decided that we’re gonna add in services to our agency as we feel completely proficient to do them.

That’s something I really believe in, I’m super passionate about. I feel like our industry, I say this all the time to our team, we are working in a completely unregulated industry, so people’s education levels are different. When one person says SEO, it could mean premium SEO. When someone says SEO, it could mean like a very grassroots local style. Even the terms digital marketing agency mean drastically different things from business to business.

Some of that’s great. I love that. I love all the diversity and some of it is very easy, I think, for customers to get kind of the wool pulled over their eyes in terms of getting really quality service from agencies. That’s something that we didn’t wanna be a part of. We wanted to just really do authentic business, do well by our customers, and really build our business on authentic, long-term relationships with our clients.

So in terms of a growth model, obviously we do our premium website design and development. We do digital marketing, SEO and Google ads. And we have partners in other areas. You know, if people need branding, if people need social. But we really focus on the core services that we can just knock outta the park.

And in terms of growth strategy, it’s been so much referral work because we really focus on long-term relationships with our clients. It’s almost like an old school way of doing business, but just making great relationships is really like so key, especially in a digital age where sometimes you feel removed from the people that you’re working with. That’s been a huge part of our business and our growth.

Shannon: That’s incredible. I think there’s two things that I wanna touch on that you said. One about the niching down. I think that a lot of – actually, this comes up on podcasts a lot actually, I think a lot of people have difference of opinion on whether niching down is important or not. So it’s interesting to see your take on it.

I think a lot of people will be under the assumption that when you do niche down, you can specialize in something, you can make sure that you’re really good at that one thing and nothing’s confusing to the client or potential leads and different things like that. Which is kind of along the lines of what I think you’re saying.

And then a lot of people also combat that with, “Oh well, like, these are what our clients are looking for, so we’re just gonna do all of those things that they’re asking us for.” And that’s fine. I don’t think there’s a problem with either of them, but I think niching down is something that comes up with agencies a lot.

On Niching Down and Client Focus

Sarah: It’s scary. It’s scary. Like even as marketers, like sometimes you’ll tell your client, “Hey, we really need to focus on a target audience. Not everyone, and maybe this person and maybe that person. We need focus on a target audience.” But it’s scary. It’s scary when we tell our clients that they get scared that they’re leaving potential business out the door. It was scary for us to do it. I will say it was really successful what we did.

I don’t think anything’s wrong. And that’s kind of also the fun, super creative landscape of digital marketing is, you can have your analytics and all your numbers and it’s really good and very helpful and supportive of making decisions going forward. But you also have to be bold and be authentic and just true to who you are. And so that felt true to who we were. And I know a lot of agencies that don’t do that. Like you said, they do the opposite, which is so cool. I’m so fascinated by different types of people. It’s just different strokes for different folks kind of a thing.

Shannon: Yeah, yeah. No, I definitely come across a lot of different opinions on that concept specifically, and I think like it works for some people. It doesn’t work for some people. And I think I really liked what you said though about trying to almost clear up possible confusion because I think that sometimes I do run into agencies where I look at their website and I don’t really understand what they do.

And I’m supposed to understand these concepts, so if I have to do some digging to kind of understand, then a client who’s looking for services is gonna have much more difficult time trying to figure out what’s going on. And I think that a lot of people miss the mark with client-focused websites specifically something that is the probably the first thing that people are gonna see unless they’re a referral and they’re just hearing about you at first.

So how do you, okay, so because you make websites, how do you kind of guarantee that your website is clear and concise and kind of customer centered in the way that it’s easily digestible?

Creating Clear, Customer-Centered Websites

Sarah: Such a fantastic question. So we do use analytics, we do look at numbers and we do a certain amount of research to find out where you’re gonna be most successful with your website. ‘Cause there’s really like – I mean, there’s way more than two parts to a website, but you have to think about building the site, building the brand, the message and the story. And then you also have to really think about post-launch. Who are we connecting with? How are we making an emotional connection? How are we getting from point A to point B?

So we definitely want the analytics and the numbers to be there to guide some of our decision making. But then something that we do in our process is we do not build templates first. A lot of agencies I know create like these blank pages and they create designs first. Then they’ll fill in content for these pages, sort of build it out that way. And we found that to be, in terms of a process, really like anti-brand and anti-story.

So we don’t create a single thing until gathering all the content from the client and/or creating the content with the client. Of course that looks different for each project. Maybe we’re the ones creating the content and we’re doing it through interviews and things like that, and then we’re writing.

But the reason we always do content first is number one, that’s one of the biggest pain points between agencies and the owners is it’s so difficult to get. It’s like homework, right? They’re already so busy at work. They’re so busy in their business. Like it’s hard to find the extra time to do the writing, to focus, to give the feedback.

So there’s a lot of excitement when you first start a project. And so we put that content collection up first before you see any designs, because there’s still a lot of excitement. We break it down, we have a formula, breaking it down in these bite-sized chunks. So it’s really easy to produce.

But it helps us also to really look at the story and the message and the flow. We stopped doing wire frames for the most part. There’s some clients that still make sense for, but for the most part, most people don’t understand wire frames. They wanna really think about design immediately, and we wanna try to get them out of design and thinking about what are you saying? How are you making a connection with your client?

And so if we do that in like a document style versus a visual style – of course each client’s a little different. So if we do work with a client who’s totally visual, we have to do wireframes and that’s great too. But it helps them to disconnect from design and go, is this good content?

Like, you said originally, it’s so difficult to go to a website and go like, “I don’t understand what they do still.” And to me, sometimes that’s bad design, but most of the time it’s bad content. So we really strip it down and do content first.

Our creative director has a background in film, script writing. He’s award-winning. He’s fantastic. And so he also really works with our customers to bring forward their story and to bring forward like the snippets, if you will, the way that people read websites. Quickly, you need to understand through like titles and buttons, what you do. So he is really good at that as well.

So I’d say that’s a big thing that we do that’s I think different from some agencies that really helps the websites connect to their ideal audience member in the end, if that makes sense.

Balancing Design and Content

Shannon: No, that makes perfect sense and I really like that because not only do I sometimes go on a website and the content isn’t there, and the idea that I still don’t understand what they do, or maybe it’s hard to navigate, but I think that I do see a lot of beautiful websites that don’t say much.

Sarah: Exactly!

Shannon: And I just don’t really understand it because it’s great that the design is there, but the most important thing is conveying something to your audience. And of course like they go hand in hand. You can have a boring website and the content’s there and it’s very clear. But no one wants to click on your website. No one wants to scroll through it.

Sarah: Exactly. It’s not making the connection. Yes, a hundred percent. Like to be successful, you have to make a connection with that user. They need to be able to read and see, and those two mediums have to join. But if you don’t have the content written first, and we’ve tried it a bunch of different ways, but we’ve found that if you don’t have the content written first, or at least like 80 to 90% – okay, so you’re still gonna tweak in the end. So don’t get me wrong, doesn’t have to be perfection.

But otherwise, what are you designing to? Because you could design something sick and awesome and out of this world, but in the end it’s a total miss. And also like it really capitalizes on the excitement that the clients have. So they want to be able to finish all their content so that they can see the designs, and then we’re not stuck prior to launch, trying to get a bunch of content into a website that ends up just being sloppy and just kind of the last thing that the client has thought about.

They don’t have time. They’re excited. They just wanna launch now. I see websites still that agencies have launched – I’m not putting anybody down or anything.

Shannon: No, I get it.

Sarah: But there’s back pages with Lorem Ipsum on them, and it just kind of breaks my heart because I know why that’s occurred and it’s because they haven’t figured out how to collect content from a client or how to approach that. So it’s really important I think in bringing the whole picture together.

Shannon: That’s actually so funny. I have seen websites like that. I have come into contact with the Lorem Ipsum, so we just redid our own website. We just relaunched. So that was kind of fun because we went through our own process and got to be the client and really empathize with the writing is by far, I think the most difficult part of the whole process. So I really do empathize with it.

It’s a lot, but if you can get that together and choose an agency to work with that will understand that process with you and not back burner it because it’s difficult, but prioritize it. It makes a huge difference in looking like you bought a template off the web and then you just filled it in yourself, which some agency websites look like that, versus looking like you worked with a professional and you have something that’s above and beyond all of your competition.

Sarah: Yeah, no, that’s really- I 100% agree with that and I think that, you know, not a lot of people can read Latin, so maybe you shouldn’t-

The Importance of Personalized Websites

Shannon: Oh my goodness. But seriously, I think it’s also like if you’re providing a service and a lot of people want a personalized approach, and your website doesn’t feel personal to you, I think that puts people off. It’s not even just like your website can be flawless in a way that there’s no mistakes, there’s no like, it was clearly made to be looked at, but it’s not anything special or anything that stands out.

I’m sure there are people that look at a website that’s like that and they’re like, “Okay. Yeah, this is like cut and dry. I get it. Let’s do work with these people.” But I dunno. Maybe that’s just not me. Maybe it’s just I’m looking for something different.

Sarah: I think it’s a big task and I don’t blame others. It’s a really, really big task. It’s really easy, even as a business owner to look at a website and in today’s day and age, go, “I can do that myself.” And we work with a lot of businesses where we are redesigning a website that they originally did themselves or like a brother, cousin, uncle did kind of thing.

Because in today’s day and age, you’re like, “Can’t I just whisper that into the ear of AI and they’ll just create a website for me? Or can’t I just buy a template?” And I think at a certain level of business, sure, that’s fine. And use the tools that you can to grow your business however you can. I’m very pro that.

But it’s also a much bigger task than it looks like when you see a website in the end. And even if it’s just four or five pages and it’s brochure style, it’s not even like deep like membership, subscription, shopping cart, all the types of large sites you work on. A well-done site makes you feel like “I could do that.” But then you get into it and it’s so much thinking about your business.

And so I think when you do work with an agency partner, you need to find someone that is willing to go that distance with you, willing to go that extra mile with you to really understand your business. Help you represent it in the right way.

When clients are writing about themselves, a lot of times they really miss the mark because owners know so much about their own business that they’re almost incapable of writing about it from the perspective of the client. And so a lot of copywriting that we help our clients with, gosh, I’m almost making it sound like we’re copywriters. But it’s like being able to pull back and go, “I don’t need you to explain to me every detail of your business. I need you to explain why it’s of value to the person who wants to purchase your service or your product.”

So yeah, it can look a lot easier in the end than the actual process. And that’s why I do think working with an agency, even as so much is changing through AI and so many things are accessible, I mean it’s just facts. It will put you ahead of your competition, especially when you match that then with the analytics and the numbers and making smart choices like that.

Shannon: Yeah. No, I think I definitely understand what you’re saying with, it’s difficult for a founder or CEO to get out of their own head in the idea.

Sarah: Yeah.

Effective Website Communication

Shannon: About, ’cause it’s, you know, to them there’s all these wonderful things about their agency and yes, there is. But you don’t need to say all of those things on your website. You can, and there’s a way of saying them, but there’s also some things aren’t necessary to say. Some things aren’t important to most of the people that are gonna look at your website or are gonna be interested in your services anyway.

And those things might be important, but they’re not the thing that they wanna see first. They can always, if there’s in-depth things, they can just get on a call with you, and they can ask you about those things too, like half the time. And isn’t that great? ‘Cause then you just got a connection.

Sarah: So, with you, we always say two things when reviewing a site. We do a scan and then a deep read. And your scan should look like this. You open it up and boom, you’re flying through the website, and did you get it? It should really be that fast. Did you get it? Did you totally get what they do? And it is really that simple.

And a lot of sites, you can’t. But it has to be that quick, and then your deep read should be, “Oh, I’m interested in them.” But most people don’t come to a website and begin a deep read. Most people come to a website and do a scan.

So, you really need to make sure that the hierarchy is used correctly. The large copy makes sense that you could just scan the large copy and the buttons alone, maybe with the images as context and totally get what you do, boom, and get how to contact you. It should be like, we could do a whole class. We could do a whole-

Shannon: People are like, “No, but we wanna tell our whole story.” I’m like, “I’m sorry, but actually your audience doesn’t care.”

Sarah: Yeah. You can, you can have a, “my story” category too, if you want like “our story” and no one has to go on it. Right? It depends on the viewer, of course. It depends on the user, but you’re a hundred percent right. You know, get them interested and call you and find out and connect with the business and start building that relationship and give them enough-

Shannon: You want them to about-

Sarah: Yeah. Give them enough to go, “Hmm. Oh, I’m curious.”

Shannon: Yeah. You want them to, you want them to, “Hmm.” Like, not bad.

Sarah: Build that mystique. “Hmm.”

Shannon: You want, you don’t want them to, “Hmm.”

Sarah: It’s a type of “hmm” you want the positive “Hmm.”

Shannon: You want the “Hmm. Oh.”

Sarah: The worst that we always say is don’t leave them confused. That is like, goodness gracious. Don’t leave them confused. I don’t, if I’m on a website and I don’t understand what it’s giving, I click off and that’s it.

Shannon: That’s it. I’m not looking for things. I don’t have the time, and Google feels the same way.

Sarah: So the way we balance analytics versus humans is – and I know each agency’s a little bit different – but we don’t believe in just looking at the analytics and going, “Here’s exactly what Google wants to see,” or going, “Here’s your user base and here’s the research we’ve done. Here’s exactly what they wanna see.” We wanna balance them both.

But there’s some things that both audiences don’t want, and Google and your audience, they don’t wanna be confused. If Google can’t understand the intent on your website, they’re never gonna rank you. They’re never gonna show you your audience because they don’t get it. You know, confusion isn’t good for marketing.

Shannon: Unless it boggles them like they wanna learn unless it’s on purpose. Yes. Like, I dunno, there’s so many funny billboards in Philadelphia that are meant to confuse you just so that you look them up. It’s actually fantastic marketing.

Sarah: I know the ones – like, who’s the guy? I keep seeing him on Instagram and TikTok. He goes, I think he’s a realtor or something. He goes, “My Gen Z intern edited this video” and it’s just the outtakes of him breathing.

Shannon: I love those. They make me crack up. I wish the editing team would make funny stuff like that outta the podcast to just be breathing this whole time. 30 minutes.

Sarah: Yes. I’m like, get us confused in a way that gets my attention. Not like I wanted to get information from you and you wouldn’t provide it. It almost feels like bad customer service out the gate.

Shannon: It almost feels like, “What do you have to show for your work?” It feels wrong and somewhat deceptive sometimes. I’m like, “I feel like you’re tricking me into a call.”

Sarah: Oh yeah. I don’t want that. I don’t wanna call you to learn more of the basics. I will call you to learn in-depth, yes, if everything sounds good, but I shouldn’t be calling you to figure out what’s going on.

Shannon: That’s such a good point. Nobody wants to feel tricked into a call. No one wants to feel like technology is working against them.

Website Forms and Customer Communication

Sarah: You know what I mean? We’re actually kind of finding an interesting trend right now. Not with all customers, but there’s certain customers that make sense for their business and there’s certain ones that the classic online form – the generic form on every single contact page of 98% of websites out there – is starting to have a backwards effect where users and visitors are getting smart.

And it certainly works on certain businesses. So I’m not seeing across the board to get ’em outta there. But here’s where it’s important to be in connection with your customers. If you know it’s not working for you, rip that off of your site yesterday. If that thing is just piling up spam for you, rip it off your website.

And our younger generations are growing up and kind of don’t trust things like that. They’re like, “No one’s gonna check that.”

Shannon: You know, when I first started doing outreach and no one told me how to do it, I was contacting people through there and one person responded to me.

Sarah: Bingo. They not real. And I will tell you from the hundreds of sites that we do maintenance on, I can tell you that they are one of the number one things that break regularly on websites. So there is a certain amount of, if a business is not working with like a maintenance company or you know, like a web maintenance, then they would have no idea that their form is breaking.

So that’s something we do when we maintain sites for our customers. We’re constantly checking that and making sure that’s always alive. But that’s probably why a lot of people are not getting responses to their requests.

Shannon: Interesting. Yeah. I think the new generations are onto it. They’re like, people don’t respond to this and we don’t know why. And businesses are confused too. You’re losing out on customers.

Sarah: Because they’re just asking a question. That’s another good thing we haven’t even talked about is like, you gotta build the site and then you gotta maintain it, baby. If you’re not doing that, then you are losing customers.

Website Maintenance

Shannon: Yeah. No constant. You can set someone up for success, but if they’re not doing the things that you tell them they should do, or even just routine maintenance on things like – I think my boss sends us a copy of our website like once a week. I think he is consistently, constantly making tweaks. I will look at it and I’ll be like, “That looks exactly the same to me. I’ve seen this so many times. It’s exactly the same.” And it’s like he just changes like one thing, like a widget, like he moves it to a different corner or something like that. And I’m like, “Okay.” But like he’s thinking about it at least.

Sarah: And that’s good. I’m sure that’s amazing. And you know, getting a new set of eyes is always good. I think when I came on the team, he was very excited because he’s like, “Okay, one more person to look at the website that has not looked at it every day for the next six months.”

Shannon: Yes. It is a living, breathing organism of your company. It is not a set it and forget it in any sort of way. I mean, I told you in our coming up story that we used to have to sit in these conference rooms and go, “This is why a website is so important to your business.” And that’s almost like laughable now. That was only 10 years ago. So like, that’s how fast tech is changing and it only changes at an increased rate exponentially.

So if you’re not staying up with what’s happening, and there’s no way a business owner is going to know all of that. You need people who are living and breathing this industry day in and day out. And even us, we’re networking all the time with our other agency owners, other professionals and experts in the business and going, “What are you guys learning? Cool. What are you learning?” Information sharing.

That’s another reason I wanted to come on this podcast beyond the fact that you’re so lovely and I just loved meeting you. I love that you’re doing this for agencies to be able to connect with each other because we can learn so much from each other. We can, and then share that information with our clients and get rid of these horror stories that clients come to me and they go, “We don’t trust. We got effed over by a business and we paid them this amount of money and nothing happened and big promises and…” Like, let’s end that by us all communicating and creating a great community where we really service our customers well.

I hate when customers come to me with that horror story and then, you know, we’ll take as long as we need to win their trust back, but goodness gracious.

Shannon: Exactly. It’s so sad to have a bad taste in your mouth, especially for something that a lot of people personally believe they can do themselves. So, which like you talked about earlier, is like, it sucks to find out that something that an agency can do, but they find out that someone else burned them in the past and now this company is, they might try to do it themselves and then be horrible at it because it’s so much to manage and you need like a team of people to be able to help you with this.

You can do it yourself, maybe it might take a really long time. It might be a lot of money that you spend because you’re not an expert and that’s okay. It’s okay to be like, hands off. Okay. Give it to someone else. It’s okay.

Web Care Service and Client Trust

Sarah: It’s okay. Trust we created. That’s interesting. We created a service that is just for that group of people who are still hands on with their business and their website, but they want to start growing trust, and don’t have the budget to work with a full agency. But in my mind, I saw this gap in the market where I was like, okay, people in some small businesses to mid-size businesses – I feel very passionately about helping businesses grow. That’s why we do what we do and we try to do as much work locally as we can. We have half our team in Arizona and half our team in California.

But I saw these businesses that were defaulting to work with freelancers, which is a huge gamble. I’ve met amazing freelancers who know their stuff, and I would recommend them day in and day out to clients who can’t afford to work with us. But it’s a gamble, and I know some that, you know, you’re not getting what I think that your business deserves.

So we created a website management service called Web Care. And it’s a way for those businesses to get agency level care and management. We just kinda like become an extension of their team, so that they can still feel totally autonomous with their website. Like they haven’t given up the reins. But they can start to feel what it feels like to have an agency that you can trust start to take over and become the expert.

And then once they have that feeling of freedom and that service has helped them build their business, then they’re ready to grow and grow with us. But it’s so awesome to see that program all the time, or that service, like almost rehab clients that have just been so burned in the past and they’re like, “I wanna start at something very entry level.” And just rebuild that trust again, you know?

Shannon: That’s really lovely and that’s kind of even what Penji does. We’re kind of supposed to fill that gap of if you wanna hire a freelance graphic designer or something like that, we’re a smaller fee than hiring a full-time worker in your company and then maybe not being happy with the way that they work or the way that they design and different things like that.

So yeah, it’s very similar in the idea that like, you can, you still have the reins in the idea that you’re submitting your projects and you’re monitoring them and you’re doing all of that, but they were doing the work for you. And you can just kind of like, you can be involved, but only so much. You don’t have to do any work. You just have to tippy type a little bit, give us a little description, and you’re all good. And you know, can you do edits throughout that too?

Sarah: Yes. I love that. ‘Cause when you have a larger agency that has already like, you’re not just then going out and getting like a freelancer. You have the trust built in. You know what I mean? Like, this is a core team that can handle this super well. And it’s more affordable. I think that’s so awesome. I just think it serves businesses at large that can really use it. I couldn’t say enough about that. I’m very passionate about that.

Closing Thoughts

Shannon: I agree. No, I definitely agree. And that’s a, it’s really great to get to talk to you because I have to cut this short. So I’m gonna say thank you so much.

Sarah: Thank you so much, Shannon.

Shannon: Thank you so much. It’s also really great to talk to someone who like, kind of has the same feelings about agencies and how we should, you know, communicate better with each other.

And it’s just like a really great outlook to have. So I really appreciate, uh, chatting with you and, you know, kind of like. Talking about this concept because I, I think, uh, you know, uh, everyone who’s watching more agencies that wanna come on this podcast and chat about things that we should all be chatting about, do that.

Sarah: Yes. 100%. Let’s do it. What, like, I feel like Shannon, you and I, were gonna talk after, we’re gonna build some sort of group that’s like getting us together because it’s a little network. Yeah. Like, I mean, fantastic. I’m sure you have it too. I’ve like, you know, you build your own networks just to.

To information share, but so beautiful what you guys are doing. I love it. Thank you so much for letting me be a part of this, great opportunity and, you’re so special and wonderful and I really appreciate it. Thank you. 

Shannon: So jolly.

Sarah: I’m, we’re coming into my season. We’re just a few months away. Perfect.

Yeah, it’s such a perfect name, though. I can’t even say it enough. It’d be good thing you didn’t change it. I don’t know what the other one is, but Jolly does. Well, thank you again so much for everyone listening or watching at home. Don’t forget to like and subscribe to talk to such lovely people like Sarah are going. You don’t get to talk to ’em. I do, but you get to listen. So that’s just as lovely. 

Probably. Thank you, probably. I appreciate it. Have a lovely day, and thank you for listening.

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