[Fully Managed] Shola Abidoye Ep. 53 – Podcast Highlights and Transcript

Host: Hello, everybody. Welcome to the first 100 podcast. This is the podcast where we explore the journey of entrepreneurs, business owners, agency leaders, and so many other cool people as they share with us the strategies, the challenges, and the triumphs that have led them to secure those first 100 customers, first 100 followers, that first 100.

I’m very excited. Today, we have a very special guest, Shola Abidoye. I didn’t ask you how to pronounce your last name. I’m so sorry.

Shola: You did a pretty good job.

Host: Oh, good. Thank you so much. How are you? I’m very happy to have you today. Very excited for our show. We have a really cool topic planned. How are you feeling?

Shola: Doing really well. Dialing in from the Balkans here and delighted to speak with you today.

Host: Delighted as well. For all of our guests watching who are not familiar with who you are, what you do, and what you’re all about, can you give us a quick intro on you?

Guest Introduction

Shola: Sure. My name is Shola Abidoye. And I run the eponymous—say that three times—SholaAbidoye.com. Also founder of Inflect Viva, and we work with foundations, funds, and also family offices to unlock the value of their first party data so that they can make better data-driven decisions and streamline their workflow automation. So I’ve been doing this for a while, not too long, and I just feel insanely passionate about it. So I was delighted to speak to you today when you reached out to me.

Host: Yeah, I’m so excited to have you. I mean, you know so much, and I did check out all of the stuff that you do and it’s amazing and I can tell that you’re very knowledgeable.

Getting to the First 100

Host: So, to kick things off, this podcast is called First 100. So I wanna know, how did you start? It’s called first 100 because it’s more about like that first milestone when you are starting something from scratch. How did you do it? We have a lot of business owners, entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, people who want to do business and don’t know how to actually get to that milestone. So I always ask my guests like, how did you get to that first 100?

Shola: So I have to admit, it’s been a while since we were at that first 100 stage, but luckily for us, we’re always learning and our vision is to unlock the first 100 million dollars in enterprise value. So if you want to unlock 100 million dollars in enterprise value, then first you have to unlock your first 100 customers, and then ultimately, let’s say your first 100 visitors.

So everything starts with visibility and traffic. And the way I got started in this business was through direct response digital advertising. I got started as a media buyer working with large e-learning institutions driving lead generation. And once you pretty much have mastered lead generation, then that gives you the ability to pretty much dive into any business model.

So my advice to anyone who wants to get to their first 100 customers or their first 100 visitors even, or clients, is that you need to master a lead generation or traffic generation strategy that really plays to what I call your ZOG, right? Your zone of genius.

Host: Yeah, that’s very interesting. I mean, lead gen, I always talk to people about that and it’s such a journey to get there. I mean, at Penji we’re also always looking for different ways to do lead generation. I think even when you have grown, you always wanna be working on that, right? It’s like a never ending journey that you’re in. So your tips are very interesting. I mean, you have it all down to a T.

Shola: A hundred percent. I agree with you and it seems like you all have a lot of fun with Penji. I feel like I was an early adopter finding you all, and it’s been nothing but, by the way, this isn’t a plug, but it’s been really a pleasure working with you all.

Host: No, you’re welcome to plug anything—shameless plug for you and a shameless plug for Penji as well. But yeah, you’ve been working with us for a while, so we’ve gotten to know you. We worked with you prior, you know what we’re all about. And I do agree that we started working together with Penji and you at earlier stages. So we’ve sort of like both companies, like both you and Penji have grown a lot in that process. Right. And now here we are sort of talking about all of this stuff that has changed in the process.

Getting Into Generative AI

Host: Now, Shola, I wanted to ask you, since I know that you’re very involved in generative AI, how did you actually get into generative AI? I think AI is a really big trend nowadays. A lot of people are talking about how AI is gonna change the world. AI is influencing all of this and Meta and like all of these companies that are using AI.

Actually, AI has been around for a while, I think we just haven’t been aware of it. And the industry obviously wasn’t booming. There it was still there and people were still using it. So I’m curious about how your experience has been. Did you jump earlier into this trend, or has it been something that, now that it’s growing, you’ve gotten an interest in? Tell me all about it.

Shola: Well, I love to talk about this because I like to say that artificial intelligence and machine learning found me. I didn’t find it. So in 2017, 2018, my partner and I started what we believe was one of the early adopter podcasts in the market called the Accessible AI podcast. So that is like a good five years before Chat GPT got popular.

And the way that AI found us is that we were always working with data. Anything that involves digital advertising starts with what you call your first party data, which is the data that is proprietary to any organization. Example, the names and email addresses and purchasing data of your customers. And so when you’re doing media buying profitably, you have to really get good at data.

And so what happened is that we just started diving into online communities that were focused on using first-party data. And what happens is that you learn different analytical frameworks. For instance, K means clustering—to get kind of fancy for a second—is a machine learning strategy that you use to slice and dice your data.

So what we realized is that this stuff seems kind of complicated for entrepreneurs. And so we need to kind of bring it down to something more practical. And ultimately, with the help of OpenAI, the machine learning AI space has become more popularized. But really around 2017, 2018, it was like cricket sounds and tumbleweed when it came to people talking about using machine learning to ultimately scale businesses.

And I’m glad that you asked me how I leverage generative AI because sometimes I like wanna bar for a little every time I hear the term AI because it’s like saying science, right? Like, what do you mean when you say AI? It’s like saying we use science. Well, do you use biology? Do you use chemistry?

Generative AI is a specific kind of AI that’s used to help businesses come up with digital assets. And so we used generative AI to basically streamline everything that is related to creating content and ultimately growing businesses. I hope that provides some context for you.

Host: Yeah. No, it totally does. I do agree with you. AI is so broad that it’s the same thing as saying like, oh, math, science.

Shola: Exactly. Language arts, right? Like now you’re just saying subject in school. Yeah, it’s just like a catchall phrase. So I think that we’re doing a real service to your audience by talking about a specific application of AI, generative AI, right? Something that people can actually wrap their head around that way when the next time someone tries to pitch them on some kind of magical AI solution, they can say, well, do you mean generative AI? Do you mean machine learning? Etc?

Host: Yeah. No, knowledge is key.

Generative AI in Business Creativity

Host: Which actually brings me to my next question, which is we have a lot of creative or people who are interested in the creative side of business, which is the design part, the marketing part, the content. We have a lot of business owners and stuff like that who are listening to this podcast and always have questions about that.

What I wanted to ask, which is related to this whole thing about generative AI is, what is, or how would you define the role of generative AI in the creativity process for the development of a business?

Shola: That’s a really great question. I think it is super practical, right? So I think the challenge with using AI is that it seems very sciencey, right, and very left brain, but creative endeavors seem very intuitive. And so how do you marry the very logical 1, 2, 3, almost paint by numbers type of tasks with tasks that are very creative?

Well, let me give you an example from the movie industry that might help you along. Are you open to playing along for a little take?

Host: Yes. Go ahead. Go ahead. Yes.

Shola: Okay, super. So here’s an example, like if you were to go and download, let’s say, the top 20 movies of all time, right? And then you had a chart of the particular plot of the movie, maybe where it was on location, whether it had a dynamic of a hero and a hero in the hero’s journey, etc. Basically you would look at all those movies. Movies are like by nature, very creative, right? And what you will see is like patterns, right? Almost like paint by number patterns. Like 80% of the 20% of the movies had 80% of this particular creative stroke to it.

Well, the same thing happens, for instance, when you are looking at logos. If you were to download the logos of a top 50 technology companies, you will actually see that the vast majority of them are using, let’s say five specific colors, right? And then you would be able to see that the vast majority of them are using, let’s say, five particular font types, right? And then you would able to see that the vast majority of them are using maybe five particular font sizes.

So then you would be able to see patterns. So then you’d be able to take something that seems very intuitive, example, create a logo, and you’ll be able to use some pattern recognition machine learning algorithms and you would be able to make some predictions about how you would think about creating your own logo, right?

So on the one hand, you would use your own creativity, but on the other hand, you would look at this checklist that you had of what the top logos were. And so pattern recognition is something that is very logical and is a very popularly used machine learning technique that can be applied to creativity to help you to reduce the risks that are always associated when you’re doing anything creative. Does that make sense?

Human Pattern Recognition vs. AI

Host: Yeah. Actually, this is not on my list of questions, but as you were talking I wanted to ask because I’m wondering, I mean, I feel like when you were talking about movies and logos and all of this, like I feel like intuitively I can recognize patterns. Like if you watch enough shows or if you watch enough movies, I’m a huge anime fan, so like I’ll watch a lot of anime and I feel like at this point I know the formula that they use for the storytelling or how they’re gonna draw a person.

I can recognize it from the amount of times that I’ve seen stuff, even if this is the first time that I’m watching this new thing, but I can’t put it into words or into something that makes sense, right? And if I see enough logos, I can also kind of recognize like, oh, this is like a simple logo, or like, this is like this type of logo. I could probably also kind of do that recognition through my own intuition.

Is this kind of like pattern recognition something that can be done? Like if someone has enough expertise, could they do that humanly and AI optimizes it, or is it something that is, you know, there’s too much for it to be like plausible for a human to actually do it?

Shola: Well, a human could do it, but it would take thousands of man hours. And the AI, so large language models can do that in a matter of seconds or minutes, right?

So if you’re open to it, let’s imagine that somebody’s is on the fence about using a service like Penji, which I think they’d be crazy to be on the fence, but whatever. I love the service, right. And let’s see how they would thinking about using a tool that almost everybody has access to—Chat GPT—to give your designers some instructions. I know because I’ve actually done it myself and if they run this playbook that we’ll talk about, I guarantee you that they’ll be surprised with the results.

So are you open to it? And for the audience, we didn’t make this up. I’m just putting her on the spot and having a little fun. What are your thoughts? Shall we do it?

Host: Yeah, let’s do it. Let’s do it.

Using AI for Better Design Briefs

Shola: Awesome. So, let’s just say somebody’s thinking about a logo for a new business, right? Let’s just say it’s a new software as a service or a new agency, or even let’s say a new e-commerce product. And what they want to do is make sure that their new logo has some of the elements of the top brands in their vertical.

Step one is that they would research a list of, let’s say the top 10 businesses for their particular niche, right? And then they would download those logos, obviously those logos will be trademarked, you can get ’em on the internet. And then they would share them with their designer, right?

I’m sorry. Well, first they would share them with an LLM. It could be Claude, it could be Gemini, it could be Chat GPT, right? And then what you would do is upload those 10 samples. And this part of this process for people want to geek out is called clustering, but you don’t need to know what’s going on around the hood. All I’m gonna do is give you literally the prompts, right?

So step one is you upload these 10 logos. Let’s say to Chat GPT, it could be the free version or the pay version. And what you say to it is, “these are the top 10 logos in my niche. What I want you to do is create a checklist of the five to seven dimensions of the logos and then tell me everything that they have in common.”

So what Chat GPT would do is come back to you with a report that says, okay, all the logos have these colors in common. All logos maybe have these fonts in common. All logos have these symbols in common, right? And then you would get to see those core elements.

And then what you would do is head over to Penji or any designer and say, “okay, I have a vision for a logo. These are the things that I want you to incorporate. I want you to think about using these colors. I want you to think about using these symbolisms. I want you to think about using fonts from these families, right?”

And what you would get back is something absolutely unique, but it has all of the elements that are common in the top logos in your vertical. And that is absolutely a way of reducing risk because you’re not starting from scratch, right? You’re already starting from what has worked.

And think about this to end this up, every one of those logos, some large corporation, literally spent tens of millions of dollars to come up with those logos. Hundreds of iterations. So you’re really leveraging the R&D research and development of some huge companies and you can’t afford to do it, and you’ve just used AI combined with a service like Penji to get you a logo that is far better than just whipping up Canva and coming up something right off the top of your head. Does that make sense?

Host: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense and I think like even if you don’t end up using that logo that you come up with, you have sort of elements there that you know like, okay, this is what works. And it’s easier than starting from like a blank slate. I think it really eliminates that sort of “I’m staring at that blank sheet of paper. I don’t know what to do with it,” right?

Shola: Sure. And you can, to end this, like, you can also not forget the human element, which let’s say with your designer, you come up with four iterations. Then what you could do again using free tools, I’m describing a process that I’ve used with much success.

Let’s say a free tool like Google Forms, you could just upload the four possible logos to a Google form and send it to people who might be one of your potential first customers and say, “Hey, of these four logos, which ones do you like?” Right?

And so before you even spend money on a website or anything, you’ve already leverage millions of dollars of research from the top corporations. You’ve already gotten human feedback from your potential first 100 customers, and you’re not starting from scratch. So you’ve married creativity with solid, logical, AI-supported research and development.

Reducing Revision Cycles with AI

Host: Is this gonna also reduce the number of revisions that a person would have with a designer, let’s say, if not necessarily a designer, but a developer or whoever is doing a service for you, right? Like if it’s web development or whether it’s a graphic design or video editing, or whatever service you’re asking a person to do, like when they’re, you’re asking for a creative service.

I’m assuming that if you’re presenting something like this, it’s a lot easier to guide a person as to what you’re looking for than if you were just telling them like, “Hey, do a green logo for me, that looks really clean,” right?

Shola: It not only does, yes, it does reduce the number of revisions, which can make it more cost efficient, but it makes it a more logical and streamlined process for the creative, let’s say the designer. And also it gives you a way to work your way through revisions.

So let me give you example. Let’s just say you have seven elements of a creative, I’m not gonna go through all of them, but let’s just say you have the symbolism, you have the font family, you have the font style. Obviously I’ve done this a few times, so bear with me, right? You have the colors, etc.

Well, then what can happen is that once you start out with the first version, then you just cycle through each one of those things on a checklist at once, which is just so much easier for the creative. So first you change the font style. Then you change the font color, then you change the symbolism. And then finally what you get at the end is something that has checked off all the boxes of what really works. And so it makes it easier for you to give the creatives instructions and it makes it easier for them to streamline it. And it just reduced costs while maintaining creative quality. And that’s a win-win situation.

Host: That’s huge. ’cause I think like with creative services, not necessarily Penji, like I think every, everybody that has worked with a designer or a developer or like when you’re asking for someone to do a creative service for you, I think there’s always a miscommunication problem.

I’ve heard it from so many people of like the person asking for the service sometimes doesn’t know how to ask for what they want because they’re not necessarily experts in design or development or video editing. But they have an idea, right? They have something in their heads and they really struggle to communicate that with the designer.

And then the designer struggles to understand what that person wants and streamline it and create something out of what you’re saying, right? Like I think that’s what you’re saying is huge because it really eliminates that communication issue that happens a lot with creative services.

Shola: I’m so glad you said that. And to give people more practical tips on how to use generative AI—again, if you wanna get a little fancy for your own vocabulary, it’s called natural language understanding, natural language generation—you can actually say to let’s use Chad GPT or Claude or Gemini:

“Hey, assume you are a seasoned graphic designer and you are giving a client a set of instructions on how to work with me, type out a checklist that I should give to the client in order to communicate with them better.”

Right? And then what happens is that the AI’s gonna spit back to you everything that you need to tell the designer to communicate with them because as you said, most people don’t have a script. All they say is, “Hey, I want a logo that maybe looks like this in this color.”

Well, that’s just like saying, I wanna get to Europe. And there’s like how many countries? Right? Good luck with that. You know, you need something a little bit more specific so you can actually ask the AI—and that’s a derivation of a generative AI—to give you instructions on how to communicate with your creative team or the reverse.

Host: Yeah, it’s huge. ’cause I think like also creatives also sometimes are, I think a lot of times when you’re an expert on something, I’ve noticed a lot of times they struggle with actually explaining that to someone who is not an expert in that specific topic.

Shola: It’s another language.

Host: Yeah. It’s another language that happens a lot where like it’s either the person asking for it is too simple, or the person giving it is too technical and like, you know, it’s like, well, where are we in this? And miscommunication is huge, I think. ’cause sometimes that’s the only problem that’s separating good designers with companies, not necessarily the quality of work, I think that’s…

Shola: Now you’re dropping the gems.

Communication Challenges in Design

Host: Yeah. No, I definitely have noticed that at Penji, where like, I think we also want to always teach our customers, like, you know, like when you wanna ask, especially for like bigger things. I think if you ask for a green logo, it might be easier for the designer to intuitively sort of picture what you want. But if you’re asking for like a website, there’s a lot that needs to happen before you’re actually asking for like that UX UI design, and a lot of times people need to learn how to ask.

And also like, if you’re not a UX and UI designer, they cannot speak to you in UX UI words, because, you know, like different vocabulary. It’s like you’re not a designer. I don’t know. I don’t understand coding. I don’t understand Figma. Right. So it’s like a two-way street.

So what you’re saying is huge to me. ’cause I think it happens a lot in any industry where someone is asking an expert to do something for them and then the expert is trying to figure out what that person wants.

Shola: Well said.

Will AI Replace Creative Professionals?

Host: Which actually Shola, this brings me to another question that I wanted to ask you. I mean, we’ve been talking about generative AI so much. Do you think this tool for augmenting human is gonna be helping augment human creativity and is going to sort of help humans with growth and design and creative in the creative process? Or do you think that it’s potentially going to just replace creative roles or maybe not all of them, but a few.

I think that’s a huge conversation. It’s a huge concern for a lot of creatives, which is I guess professionals in general, that AI is going to replace them because they’re going to be able to do the job much better and a lot quicker than that person ever could have ever done it, no matter how much of an expert you are.

And I always ask people when we talk about AI, this question, ’cause I’m curious, especially if you’re an expert, I’ve had some people say no and give me their reasoning. And I’ve had some people say yes, I’ve had some people say like, it depends. I wanna know what you think.

Shola: Well, I’m gonna try to get cute. Now I say I’m gonna keep it 100. Right? The first 100.

Host: I like it. Yeah, I’m gonna keep it 100.

Shola: So I believe that what is gonna happen is that both sides of the spectrum are going to be extended. Let me tell you what I mean. So I think that the people that are really good at what they do are going to become even more valuable and for employers even more expensive to hire. Right? And then the people in the middle—the people who are not so good at what they do—become easily replaceable and their jobs are going to be at risk.

And so the real strategy is not so much asking the question, will AI replace humans? I think the better way to look at it is to understand that humans who use AI, right, AI-enabled humans, if you will, are gonna far exceed what humans who don’t really know their way around the technology, right?

I think that we’re a bit far off away from having human beings totally replaced by machines, especially in the physical world. And so what I would say is that it’s very important for anybody who is feeling scared or intimidated about their jobs or their livelihood being replaced by artificial intelligence and machine learning to have some concerns, but to more importantly think through what they can do to protect themselves, if you will.

And for me the answer is really simple. It’s specialization. Let me give you an example. If you were to think about artificial intelligence and machine learning being a tree, right? And on that tree are different branches. Each one of those branches is a specialization. So if you decide to just get really good at one of those branches or leaves, there’ll be very few people in the world like you.

Right? So, lemme give you example. Give me, just off the top of your head, give me an industry and I’ll show you how I would go about thinking about how to kind of AI-proof my career in that industry.

Host: Fashion.

Specialization Strategy for AI-Proofing Your Career

Shola: Okay. Fashion. All right. Yeah. So, first of all, physically we’re a bit far away from the robots actually sewing the clothes. So on the physical side, you know, you’re actually a bit shielded, but on the digital side, people perhaps are intimidated by generative AI that can come up with all these sometimes really nice fashion designs.

So you’re thinking to yourself, how do I shield myself from the coming storm of AI? And what I would do is get super duper specialized, right? So let me give you example. Fashion is really big, right? So there are different types of fashion. Let’s just say, I’m gonna totally pull this out of a hat, right? Let’s just say you decide that you’re gonna get really good at snow and ski fashion for women, right?

So there’s fashion and then there is clothes that are just made for the slopes. And it’s not just any kind of person—it’s just women, right? So you have fashion, then you have ski fashion, then you have women, right? And then what you’re gonna do is take one particular branch of AI, let’s just call it clustering. Don’t worry about what that does, but just to say clustering.

So you have one small branch. You have one small audience, right? So you have snow fashion for women and you’ve married it to one tool. And so you’re gonna become the best person on the planet when it comes to applying this type of AI for ski fashion for women, it’s gonna be so hard to replace you.

And so I would say for anyone, the trick is specialization, right? Don’t worry about the entire landscape of AI. Just pick one particular technique that you can get really good at, right? And then one particular audience. And if you marry an audience to a technique, it’ll be so hard to replace you.

It’s just like, it’s super hard to find a particular type of specialist doctor, a brain surgeon. But you can find a family doctor everywhere, right? And so the more specialized you are, and specialization just means a particular audience married to a particular type of AI, you’re gonna be totally irreplaceable, at least for a while.

Host: That’s amazing. I think that’s great advice. I mean, I’ve had people tell me kind of just like, you know, I think the older crowd is gonna get outdated. People who don’t know. But what you said is huge. ’cause you actually gave like practical advice on this and you know, like you spoke about how specifically it’s just you’re not gonna get replaced if you are actually very knowledgeable because it’s hard.

You’re right. Like nobody, I mean, off the top of my head, I can’t really think of like a fashion designer who does only snow and skiing fashion.

Shola: Yeah. But if I was a skier, like a professional skier, or I was living in like Switzerland or something where skiing is huge, I would probably really be into that. Right. Exactly. So there you go. And it’s so practical and it’s very easy to use.

And what I would say for anybody listening, everybody has a ZOG—zone of genius, right? So what you can do is just look at the things that you already like. You mentioned anime, right? Like there’s some things that you know about anime just because you love it. It’s a passion, right?

Host: Yeah.

Shola: And so there are things that you would know that somebody who just jumps into that market they would never know about. So you marry a specialization that’s based off of something you’re already passionate about with just one particular kind of techie application of machine learning and AI, and you really have a specialization that’s hard to beat.

You’re the only one talking about it on Pinterest. You’re the only one talking about it on TikTok. You’re the only one talking about it on YouTube, LinkedIn, everywhere you go, you’re just the only person that has kind of owned that space. I hope that makes sense.

Host: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense and I think you’ve given us so many great tips, so many practical tips and I love that. I think you’re amazing ’cause I think sometimes these conversations will be really broad and you know, there’s no conclusion and you’re just kind of like giving the pointers, which is great. Now we’re all like, amazing.

Rapid Fire Game

Host: Yeah, no, we’re almost running out of time, Shola. But I do have a game prepared for us, if you’re willing to play.

Shola: I’m ready.

Host: Awesome. Yeah. So, I’m gonna give you a little bit of rundown. It’s quick, it’s a rapid fire. One minute questions, and I’m gonna take my phone here and make a timer for one minute. And we’re just gonna see how many questions we can get through in a minute. And if we get through all 20 questions in a minute, you are gonna be the sole winner because I’m gonna put a little bit of pressure on you. Nobody can get through 20—I’ve interviewed hundreds of people. Everybody always stops. I think the highest I’ve had is like 16, so.

Shola: Oh, let’s do it. Competitive. Let’s see if you’re competitive.

Host: Alright, let me start.

Coffee or tea?

Shola: Coffee.

Host: Early bird or night owl.

Shola: Night owl.

Host: Favorite social media platform?

Shola: LinkedIn.

Host: Go-to karaoke song.

Shola: Holiday Madonna.

Host: Books or podcasts?

Shola: Podcast.

Host: One word that describes you.

Shola: Passionate.

Host: Dream vacation destination.

Shola: Antarctica.

Host: Most used app on your phone.

Shola: YouTube.

Host: Favorite emoji?

Shola: Laugh.

Host: Hidden talent.

Shola: Flower photography.

Host: Go-to Comfort Food?

Shola: Popcorn.

Host: Superpower you want for a day?

Shola: Fly.

Host: What inspires you the most?

Shola: Ambition.

Host: Guilty pleasure.

Shola: Sleep in.

Host: If you weren’t doing this, what would you be doing?

Shola: Video production.

Host: We got through 14 questions. I was close. I was close.

Shola: You were good. You were getting actually pretty high. I think you were. You were pretty high.

Host: So like, I’m still gonna add you to the list of the top people because I think I got, I had someone who only answered like five questions, so don’t feel that…

Shola: Like a snooze fest, but I won’t ask who they are.

Host: I can’t say. You’re gonna have to watch the show to see who it was.

Conclusion

Host: Awesome. But you did great. Thank you so much for doing this, Shola. It has been amazing to have you. Before we end the episode, I do wanna give you the space to plug anything that you wanna plug. If you are looking for people to work for you if you’re looking for customers, whatever. If you are just wanting to let people know where they can find you, if anything that was spoken today resonated with someone, I wanna give you the space to tell people and where they can go and find you. So the floor’s yours.

Shola: Awesome. So please reach out to me on LinkedIn and I’d be curious for you to send me a DM telling me the one thing that you got that was valuable. I’m also looking for a really brilliant content operation specialist, so you can send your CV to me also on LinkedIn and watch out for our upcoming print and email newsletter that’s gonna be published by Inflect Ivivva. Thank you so much. It’s been a wonderful opportunity to speak with your audience, and I hope you have me back again someday.

Host: For sure. I definitely will. Thank you so much, Shola and everyone else. I will see you on the next episode. Goodbye.

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