[Fully Managed] Patrik Connole Ep. 61 – Podcast Highlights and Transcript

Shannon: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Fully Managed Podcast, the podcast where we discuss marketing and business tips to help assist you on your business journey. I’m your host Shannon, Penji’s partnership coordinator and I’m joined here today with a very special guest, Patrik Connole from Oozle Media. Thank you so much for coming on with me today.

Patrik: Thank you. Excited.

Professional Background

Shannon: I appreciate that. Could you just start by telling us a little bit about yourself, how you kind of got to this point in your career, and anything that you think is notable on the way?

Patrik: Sure. Yeah. So I am the director of Organic Marketing, as you can see in the title, very exciting for Oozle Media, which we are actually kind of chatting about this a little bit before we came on. But it, you know, there’s a bunch of different titles out there in the marketing world. Mine basically means that I’m in charge of making sure that everything on the floor gets done for our agency.

So anything with SEO content, those sorts of tasks that’s basically non-paid media sorts of options. I’m in charge of making sure it gets kind of out the door. Help out with the website’s side of things too is kind of a natural part of it as well.

So, from my end, I started marketing as an intern. I was originally a broadcast journalism major. Figured that that wasn’t actually going to be a good career since it’s dying. And I have actually found a lot of fellow journalism majors along the way. My immediate supervisor is also a journalism, ex-journalism person as well.

So, I took an internship with a marketing company down in Provo, Utah. And, I had a mentor, he’s one of my good friends now and really found that I really liked marketing and found, had a knack for data and analysis and things like that, too. So I got a job at Oozle Media right after that internship with SEO and I’ve stayed with the company and kind of grown up with the company ever since.

And so my background is heavily more based in SEO content, and so this kind of natural position opened up along the way, and yeah, we’re excited to, that’s just kind of like where I’ve been at and now I’m doing some people management and SEO and that’s just kind of how their career evolves over the past almost nine years that I’ve been at Oozle Media.

Shannon: That is great. I love to hear a non-linear path for marketing. I feel like it happens pretty often, and I really enjoy hearing that. I think marketing is definitely a position in which you don’t have to have a very set path on the way to it, but I think it works for a lot of people.

Patrik: Yeah. And honestly, like, it’s not like there’s some colleges out there that will teach some level of marketing something earlier, but by the time they teach it, it’s kind of already gone and out because marketing moves so fast.

Skills from Non-Marketing Backgrounds

Shannon: I definitely agree. Do you think that having a background in something outside of marketing was helpful in contributing to you being successful in your role today?

Patrik: Yeah, absolutely. I like the skills that I actually learned in school of journalism of like how to write and actually, because I was in broadcast journalism, how to edit video. And also be a presence because I was, you know, I was one of the hopeful to be a sports journalist, right? Because every other guy who can’t make it in sports wants to be that.

And so found out that I just, I’m not a pretty young female that most are at this point. So, unfortunately, right? So that’s just kind of like, was like, I’m probably not gonna make it that way. Then I’ve tried some news, and it’s like, but like being able to have a presence and learn how to work hard and be able to use some of the journalistic skills of, like, research and finding stuff out.

And that really helped me out in my career a lot is being able to understand how to research and put things together and talk with people, right? Like, being able to talk with people is extremely important too.

Shannon: Yeah, I definitely think there’s a lot of roles that can help in marketing that people don’t really think of. My favorite question to ask people in the marketing field is, what’s the best marketing advice you received from a non-marketing space? If you have that off the top of your head, you’re welcome to share, but I know sometimes it’s not just at the forefront of anyone’s mind.

Patrik: Yeah. Yeah. No, honestly, like that’s a good question. And, like, I think actually the biggest thing that’s contributing to that is marketing is for people, right? And the people outside of marketing can kind of give you a good perspective of “Well, that’s worked for me.” I actually ask my wife kinda all the time, she’s a math teacher, right? And so I kind of ask her some things just to make sure that I’m not like in my own confirmation bias funnel fairly frequently.

Shannon: Yeah, no, I definitely think exactly what you said is something that’s super important for marketing. Any marketer is asking someone outside of marketing to help them in something that they look at all day, every day. Because I think especially when you’re focused on a campaign for so long, or even if it’s something that you are continuously editing, I think that you kind of are no longer looking in the brain of a consumer, but rather, this is your child that you’ve created and it’s like this campaign and you’re kind of biased. So, you need someone to look at it from a different perspective and be able to explain what’s wrong or what’s right about it.

Patrik: Yeah, and that’s why it’s important to have, like, if you’re in an agency environment, it’s really easy to fall on that trap. It’s a lot easier when you’re like a marketing person at a single company or something that you have other people around you to bounce things off of. That’s why in our agency, we’ll, you know, we have, that’s why most agencies have like a client approval process of some sort, right? Because they’re living that life and you’re just trying to work your way into it.

Marketing Creativity and Business Knowledge

Shannon: Yeah, no, I definitely think it’s important to get an outside perspective, and I think there’s a lot of factors that contribute to making someone a good marketer. And I think that a lot of those aren’t traditional business upbringing or anything. I think some of the best marketers that I look at—I love LinkedIn, so I definitely come around to it and I look at a lot of people’s posts, especially a lot of people in the marketing space. And I think some of the people that have the most unique or creative ideas that work really well are people that don’t have a background in marketing or don’t have a very traditional background.

Patrik: Yeah, absolutely. And I think marketers who have business knowledge are the most valuable out of all of them because they understand how it gets from just, you know, if you have just people who are marketing, they’re like looking at audiences, they’re looking at how do I reach to them? Like what’s the methods and the madness? And they don’t really understand how taking marketing could go from getting a person to actually give you money, and then how that money affects the business, right?

That’s how a business owner views marketing. They look at marketing as an avenue to make more money, right? We look at marketing like we get into marketing, not because it’s like, “Oh, I’m gonna go make more business, more money.” I get into marketing because it’s like, “Oh, this is fun, this is cool. I get to write content, I get to learn things. I get to put stuff out there for people to see, I get to talk with an audience, whatever else.” But at the end of the day, a business is only gonna pay if you make more money.

Difficult Industries to Market

Shannon: Exactly. Yeah. And you need that skill as well. Do you think that there’s an industry that is most notably difficult to market?

Patrik: You know, that’s a good question to ask agencies because we tend to get like a whole bunch of them across the board-wide spectrum. Anything that’s super saturated in a market is very hard to do anything with. A lot of times dentists I find to be very difficult to work with a lot of times because, and I say this with all the goodness and kindness in my heart. Dentists are dentists, and they’re not business people.

And so they expect a lot for, like, what they’re getting. And a lot of time,s they have troubles pushing, understanding the business side of it, and putting it two and two together with it. And I say that my father-in-law’s a dentist, and same sort of conversations a lot of times with him.

There are some dentists that are business people who just happen to run a dentist space, and those tend to churn out and do really well with what they’re doing. But the reason why dentists are hard, it’s a very saturated area. Like, people are only willing to go so far to see their dentist. Right. And you can only do so much advertising within that space to get them to come to you unless you have a highly specialized skillset. And people are willing to travel for that.

So anything that’s kind of along those lines, we found to be more difficult. And then, if you’re a startup, that’s the other place that it can be very difficult. If you don’t have an agency that specializes in startups and understands that world and how to get you traffic and get space like that, you can’t just work with any agency. You gotta work with somebody who’s had good experience from a startup standpoint.

Shannon: Yeah, I definitely agree with that. I think you want someone that has, there’s a lot of agencies that work with a vast amount of clientele, and I think that’s okay. I don’t think that you have to niche necessarily in order to do good work, but I think sometimes there’s specific fields that you really want evidence that they’re good with working with that type of person.

Specialization in Marketing

Patrik: Yes. Yeah. It’s so much better to work with an agency that is specialized and that obviously also helps an agency grow better because they can affect, they can do more effective practices and more quickly as well. Right. Because time is such a valuable commodity in the agency space. We’ve specialized as Oozle Media, we work primarily with post-secondary education and beauty schools. Like that’s what we do all day. And you’d be surprised how many beauty schools there are out there.

Shannon: I know I have six older sisters and two of them are estheticians. So it’s a very interesting space.

Patrik: Yes, it is. And unless you are working with a, you know, there’s a couple of agencies out there, they’re very specialized in the beauty school and we know who they are. They know who we are. Right. But if you were to take what I know about beauty schools, I can generally apply it to some other spaces as well, especially the more similar they are because I know those practices work because we’ve worked with literally hundreds of schools across the nation and in Canada and wherever else.

Shannon: Yeah, no, that’s extremely helpful to be able to have that experience and be able to, I think that adds a level of trust to you and your client as well, because I think that relationship is really important, and to be able to know it’s almost to know that someone specializes in a field is almost the equivalent of a referral to me. Just because it’s, it all comes down to a trusting relationship, and I think people are super wary to put anything that might affect their income to someone else.

Patrik: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and especially if it’s a business owner that’s built something from the ground up, it’s their baby man. Like, and they have worked on this thing a ton and it’s, you know, they feel the feels for it. And you can, you can get some very passionate business owners that way.

Shannon: Yeah, they’re terrified of doing something wrong with it.

Patrik: Yeah, absolutely. I get it, just in the wrong agency.

Holistic Marketing Approach

Shannon: So yeah, I think that’s extremely important. So, something that I noticed about Oozle Media specifically is that you guys advertise a holistic marketing approach. Correct. Do you think… One, if you could explain that a little bit for maybe people that don’t understand the concept of it, and then I was actually do that first, and I’ll ask my follow-up.

Patrik: Let’s go with that. Yeah. Not too many questions at a time.

Shannon: Um,

Patrik: Yeah. So the best way that I describe it is that marketing is an ecosystem. Okay? Like, you cannot pull the… if you take the wolves out of the forest, then guess what? All the deer are gonna run rampant. Right? Because there’s nothing to control the population anymore. Right? It happened in…

Shannon: New Jersey.

Patrik: Yeah, it happened in Yellowstone. Right. And there’s many, many cases of this happening. You can read that, like, marketing statement is the same. It’s an ecosystem. So holistic marketing is, you have to feed the entire ecosystem. You can’t, if you become a one-trick pony on something with your marketing, then you’re going to run out of space very quickly.

Right? Imagine a football team that only runs the exact same rushing play every single time. At some point, they’re gonna stack the box. And everybody’s gonna be there, and the safeties are gonna come down, and you’re not gonna have anywhere to go because there’s too many people in the way. Right?

So, when we talk about holistic marketing, we try to look at the whole picture, right? We, and so we do offer kind of, we’re a full marketing service, right? We do paid ads, we do websites, we do SEO, we do content. We do kind of all that together for that. And we try to build a holistic marketing strategy for that.

Now, we can’t do everything either, right? Like the take a much bigger team than we have currently, and we’re trying to grow towards that as well, right? But like, you know, it also incorporate, like, trying to have somebody who’s doing your traditional marketing is in addition to your digital marketing. All of that works together.

And not only that, just because I send you a lead doesn’t mean that it’s like we’re ready to go. You have to have, in the beauty school world, an admissions rep who’s ready to nurture that lead. Right. And there’s lead nurturing stuff and all that pertains to the marketing flow and how it ends up making your bottom line better. And there, and, but we train our account managers in particular, and then all of our fulfillment specialists to understand across laterally everything that they’re doing.

Right. Our content writers are trained in social media and SEO, they focus on content, but they understand the holistic side of it, or paid media or whatever else it is, so that they know how their work affects all the rest of the of everything else that was going on.

Shannon: Okay. Okay. That makes a lot of sense. I think that that is, thank you also for providing that explanation because it not only makes me positive that I know what I’m talking about. But then also, I think that a lot of guests, marketing agency role, different terms, so every time.

Patrik: So do you, could you explain, you kind of touched on it in the beginning, but could you kind of explain, not only why you think that this is important, but maybe why you think this is better than a differing marketing approach?

Why Holistic Marketing Works Better

Patrik: Yeah. Like, so going back to the analogy, right? Where if you only do the one trick, then you run into trouble. Right? Now, I’m not saying that an agency that is exclusively focused on digital ads or just CRO or just SEO or whatever else, they’re gonna get really, really good at that one thing, especially if they’re able to focus in on an industry or whatever else, right?

But as a business, businesses can’t do that, right? They can’t afford to just be one trick ponies because you and I in the real world, we don’t just live in one space, right? Like when throughout your day, think about how many different digital and traditional touchpoints that you may have just throughout your normal average day, right?

You’re on TikTok or Facebook or LinkedIn or Instagram, or maybe all of them throughout the day, right? I’m on my computer. I may be on a news side, I might be driving and I see billboards. I might be a newspaper person, I might get an email. I might, there’s so many different touch points that could potentially happen, right?

And so if you go back and think how did marketing work before the internet existed? It’s a question I really like to ask new people to our organization. How did marketing work before you, before your job existed? Right. And they can always fumbling. I don’t know. Right. And it’s like it, but they did marketing, right?

Yeah. It’s existed for thousands of years. They found pottery that has literal advertisements on it. Right? So, like it’s from Pompeii. Like, go look it up on the internet. I’ve seen it. There’s strategy that matters across the board that is important to your whole shtick, right? And that is just trying to get your message in front of the right people at the right time when they’re ready to make a purchase. That’s the whole thing, right? So as long as you can do that successfully, you’ll be in good hands.

Shannon: Okay? So it’s kind of a multifaceted approach.

Patrik: Very much so. Yeah. It’s, it’s an ecosystem. It’s multifaceted. It’s never one thing. Right. And that’s why I can get on a high horse about attribution. I can get on a high horse about a lot of different things. But the realistic thing is a person’s journey to give you money is unique and individualized on a per person basis and what they need. And at the end of the day, the important part is that you provide an answer or a solution to the problem that they’re facing at the time.

Marketing Strategy Challenges

Shannon: No, of course. I think that’s what marketing at least seeks to do at all times. I think it’s just sometimes you run into the trouble of, it’s not always the most predictable field.

Patrik: Yeah. ‘Cause like I know generally I can create a persona, right? Like we do that all the time because it helps us kind of generalize it and put it together. We speak a lot in general generalities, but at the end of the day. Can I appeal to that one person with what they need at that time? That’s kind of the goal of what we can do. Right. And the more people that you can appeal to across the board, the more successfully you’ll be.

Shannon: So for example, okay, so you said that you deal with beauty schools a lot. Do you think that, when kind of, I don’t know if this had started before you were the director of organic marketing or not that this was the niche of the company, but when in search for kind of the best strategy to deal with this clientele, do you think that there’s something that really just did not work, like found out throughout the process that was like this just does not work for beauty schools?

Patrik: Yes, there are things that we have discovered along the way that have helped us know what not to do. A lot of it’s in the paid ads realm, and so it’s not my area of expertise like, you know, we can talk to our director over there. There are a myriad of keywords that people try to use and whatever else.

What I’ve found in my space, though, that is particularly important to focus on—found that schools who are not doing a lot of the tradition, a lot of good traditional marketing tactics from an organic side of things tend to do a lot worse than schools who are doing those things.

So what we find is a lot of business owners and a lot of schools, because paid media is very attractive. Paid ads are very attractive because you can attribute stuff. You can save money in, money out. This is exactly what I’m getting. I can set, know my cost per lead, I can know this, that and the other. Right? There’s a lot of like exact data, so it makes it a lot easier for a business owner or a CEO or whoever else to make a decision on it.

SEO content, even social media. Much more nebulous, right? It doesn’t have a direct effect. It’s a lot harder to track. It’s a lot harder to bring in all of the variables to say this is working or not working. Right? And this is applicable not just in beauty schools, like, this is applicable for most businesses if I’m being completely honest.

But when you narrow it down and you find out that you’re able to focus in on some of the core principles of, like, are you doing what Google asks, which is creating fresh content consistently, that is made for users, right? Then, yes, you’re gonna get better results because you’re appealing to the algorithm that they’ve literally stated.

Right. Some people be like, okay, I got a blog, and they just like will blog about hairstyles for 2025, right? Or something like that. And it’s not, it’s, yes, it’s fine, it is relevant to kind of what you are, but you’re not answering a core question, which is how much does beauty school cost?

Shannon: You can’t answer that.

Effective Content Strategy for Schools

Patrik: Right? Like, the person who’s actually gonna give you more money isn’t gonna do that, right? So we find like a lot of schools that just kind of like do a lot of fluff pieces kind of things like that, and they don’t do that.

The other thing that we found that is another thing that’s really important for schools in particular, beauty schools in particular, is focus on the student. A lot of schools end up focusing on themselves and what they can offer. Right? Or like, what are the highlights and perks of this program or whatever else, right? And we found that if we just show student work and like, show off your students, they’re your greatest asset. They’re the people who are like, “Oh, that person looks like me.” That’s telling a story that I want to be able to do that with my life. I want to do this thing. Right? And so the more we’re able to tell student stories, the better off we are.

Shannon: I really appreciate you saying all of that because I think I resonate with a couple things. One, discussing the idea of like the fluff pieces. I think that it does make sense to do, to always have a traditional post, at least like underlying, because I think that a lot of people will try to do something that is kind of, for lack of better phrasing, gimmicky. And it might drive in a lot of traffic for a very particular time. And I think that is the same for all businesses. But then after that it’s not consistent of lead generation for a long period of time. And I think that you obviously have to have that foundation in order to guarantee that. And I think a lot of people are kind of looking for something that’s like quick.

Patrik: Yeah. Looking for a quick fix.

Shannon: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s something that’s gonna be gonna bring an insane amount of leads in a period of time. But I think that’s detrimental in so many ways. Not only because you might not be able to handle it, which is people don’t think about is excited.

Lead Quality vs. Quantity

Patrik: Which reminds me, like one of the things that we also found for schools that does not work, Facebook forms, right? The forms on Facebook that people can just fill out right there and then, and there. People just like, kind of, they’re not qualified enough leads to really be worth their measure. You can get tons of them. We can get so many of them, but like at the end of the day, like it’s not somebody who’s actually ready to come to the school, you know?

Shannon: Yeah. It’s Facebook. There’s a lot of wackos on Facebook. They’re definitely off because they’re bored.

Patrik: Exactly. Yep. Yep. So, like, your ratios are off, you know, you can get a hundred Facebook leads and only two of them are ready to go. Or you can get 10 good leads on your website from an organic search, and, you know, six of those are ready to go, you know, or whatever, whatever those are, like, those were completely blown outta proportion. But the sense is the same.

Shannon: Yeah, exactly. It’s nice to also, it’s always nice to see a good pool of leads, but at the same time, if a very low percentage of those turn into clients, then it also is something that is important to look at. And I think that’s, I don’t know. I guess a lot of businesses that don’t understand marketing heavily don’t really understand that until it happens.

Patrik: Yeah. Well, yeah, A lot of times, especially, like, I’ve been in an account management position as well. And when I get a client who’s like, how many leads? How many leads, how many leads? And I’m like, you don’t care about leads. You care about enrollments, sales.

Shannon: For sale

Patrik: In this, in any other term, you care about an enrollment because that means somebody gave you money, right? Leads, leads, leads. And the other thing is too, is if I balloon up your leads, I can do that super easy. That’s not, that’s, that’s not a problem. I can balloon up your leads super easy.

Your admissions people, right? The people who are working the phone are going to have to waste the time figuring out if those are good or bad leads, right? And so, like, the conversations are a lot easier when I say they come, and they’re already pretty good leads, right? They’re not gonna be excellent every single time. Like that never happens, right? Some of them are, but not all of them are.

But if I can bring you good leads and then you have people who are good on the phone, right? ‘Cause there’s also a conversation that can happen too. It’s like, okay, I’m getting you a lot more leads and they seem like good leads from my end. And then they go to your admissions people and all of a sudden, Hmm. Why do all of them drop off when they go a particular admissions person? Or why do they all drop off at the admissions space? Right.

Or they’re not doing enough there. Like there’s, there’s so many different breaking points along the way, but having people again industry experience who can talk about every step of that journey and say, you know, is this going well? Good, is this going well? Yes. Is this, oh, that’s that. That seems to be where our drop-off point is as a benchmark because we have a lot of industry benchmarks as well. That’s another benefit of working with the specialized agency too.

Shannon: Is that you can figure out at which point of the way is not working. Yeah, I think that’s, I like that a lot because I think that’s not what a lot of businesses are looking at specifically. They’re kind of just wondering why they’re, they’re wondering why something isn’t working, but I think it’s also, they’re not wondering where they’re,

Patrik: Yeah.

Shannon: Yeah, exactly. I agree. Like, it’s just they know something’s wrong. They just don’t know where in the pipeline or the funnel to fix it.

Identifying Business Problems

Shannon: Yeah, it reminds me of have you ever seen the show Kitchen Nightmares?

Patrik: I have not.

Shannon: Oh, okay. Do you like cooking shows?

Patrik: I do like cooking shows, and I think I’ve seen some ads for it. I’m, uh, you know, I, I Guy Fieri, thumbs up for that guy.

Shannon: Love him. Um, so Kitchen Nightmares is Gordon Ramsey, who is not as chill as Guy Fieri. But I love this show because he basically comes to a restaurant that’s doing poorly and kind of like whips them into shape and it tries to figure out what’s wrong in the process. Usually it’s a lot of it. But sometimes it’s just one thing.

For the first time the other day, I saw him actually like the food, and realized it was a management that was the problem of why it was driving people away. The manager was not kind and was just not nice to the customers. And that was the whole thing. They were just not coming back because he was rude to them.

And I think that is a lot of marketing agencies and especially when they don’t specialize, don’t look at all of these parts. So it’s like they can bring up, they can bring in all these leads, they can do all these things correctly, but then they’re not getting the results that they want and has nothing to do with necessarily the process they took. It has to do with the way that the business is running itself, and that’s something that you can’t really pinpoint if you’re just,

Patrik: And I can’t fix it for you either. You have to fix that.

Shannon: Yeah. You can just basically say, this is the evidence and then here you go, guys. Fingers crossed.

Patrik: Here’s my clouder. Like I’ve given you the evidence that I possibly can.

Shannon: Yeah, and I think there’s a lot of agencies out there that can’t even tell them that’s what’s happening because they’re just, “Hey, we’re giving this all to you, but you don’t something isn’t happening and we don’t know why.”

Measurement and Attribution

Patrik: Yeah. Another kind of related thing to that is that I see an overreliance in other agencies on pixel fires in the paid ad space. So when somebody, Google ads, you’ll set up like a tracking measurement across the board and there’s a hundred different ways that you can set up a pixel. So, to do that right, the pixel just tracks somebody and what they do.

Right. And so a lot of times they’ll check, set it up to a pixel fire, then sends it back as a conversion, and they’ll report on that. What we found is a lot of times when you just track a pixel fire, it’s important because then it sends back information to Google to say, this is a qualified leader or whatever else, and you don’t get it down to an actual name, an email or phone number of a person.

Your pixel fires are gonna be way higher. ‘Cause Google wants to take credit for everything. Facebook wants to take credit for everything. TikTok, whoever else they all wanna take credit. It’s me, me, me, me, me. Right. They’re, that’s on their best interest to do that. Right. What matters is you got a name and an email and a phone number, right, that you can actually reach out. That’s a real person that’s in your area that you can contact. That’s what matters, right?

So you have an over reliance on just pixel fires and you don’t actually aren’t able to actually dig down in and say, yeah, we had a hundred pixel fires and 80 of those were leads, and of those 80 leads, 20 of them were not kind of spamish, right? So if you really got 60 leads, but if you’re over reporting it at a hundred leads. Some, some at some point business owners can say something’s not adding up.

Shannon: Yeah, yeah. No, we’ve definitely had experiences similar to that, even in our company where Google Ads is not reporting in, you know. Yeah. We’ll get an uptick during a week and we’ll be like, oh, that’s really unusual because this isn’t our normal numbers and we’re thinking that it’s because of an ad that was put out, but sometimes it’s just inaccurate because of so many different reasons.

Patrik: Yep, exactly. So I would not I think they’re good, they’re helpful. They can help you diagnose issues, they can give you kind of good overview of things, but if you really wanna get down to the nitty-gritty, you can’t just be completely dependent on what Google tells you. Google has its own best interests at heart. If anything came from the Google leaks that came out earlier this year, which I could also talk to you for hours about that, Google loves Google.

Shannon: Google does love Google. What did you see? I completely forgot about this, but Google’s motto used to be something like, what is it? It has something to do with evil. What was, I’m gonna find it really quickly. Don’t be evil.

Patrik: Yeah.

Shannon: I don’t know if that stands anymore.

Patrik: Don’t be as evil as someone else. Amazon.

Shannon: As Amazon. As X.

Patrik: As Amazon. As X.

Shannon: Yeah, exactly. I think it’s very funny to see such a large company have had a motto like that.

Patrik: Well, and actually, like some of the stuff that’s come out from the Department of Justice findings, some of the slides that have come out, I’ve reviewed them, and they have a slide that’s like, that’s literally called Google Magic, and I’m like, are you kidding me? You’re calling yourself Google Magic. It’s literally like how their algorithm works and how search works, but they’re like, yeah, that’s how the magic at Google works. And I’m like, oh my gosh. This is what you’re using for internal training.

Shannon: You guys are super humble.

Patrik: They Google loves Google.

Conclusion

Shannon: Google loves Google. Oh my God. Okay. Well, unfortunately, we don’t even have time for the game. This is all the time we have for today. I really appreciate, this is really fun and I learned a lot. I also will definitely look more into the Google trial because I really enjoy things like that, so that would be really interesting to learn about. It might make me a little pessimistic about everything, but it’s okay. That’s kind of how

Patrik: Yeah, it will. But yeah, search Engine Journal has some really good writeups on it. Rand Fishkin from Spark Toro had kind of broke the news, and I pull rank Mike King. He had a excellent write-up on it. So as you’re kind of shout-outs to those guys, I actually went to a conference recently and met them in person. They’re really cool.

Shannon: That’s incredible. Thank you so much for a specific name. ’cause I will definitely be looking that up afterwards.

Patrik: Yep.

Shannon: Fantastic. Okay, well, thank you again so much for coming on with me today. I really appreciate it. This was an incredible time and I think I got a unique perspective on marketing, so that’s great.

Patrik: You write nothing more than that. That’s definitely something I can do.

Shannon: Well, thank you again, and thank you, everyone, for watching or listening. Please don’t forget to like and subscribe to hear more stories like this. Thank you very much.