[Fully Managed] Nelson Bruton from Interchanges Ep 60

Introduction

Shannon: Hello everyone and welcome to the Fully Managed Podcast, the podcast where we discuss marketing and business tips to help assist you on your business journey. I’m your host, Shannon, Penji’s partnership coordinator, and I’m joined here today with a very special guest, Nelson Bruton from Interchanges. Thank you so much for coming on with me today. I really appreciate it.

Nelson: Hello. Nice to be here.

Shannon: Thank you so much for coming on with me today. Again, I always say thank you way too many times. I have to stop myself. Can you please tell us a little bit about yourself, kind of how you worked your way up to this point, and what you’re kind of doing on your day-to-day right now so the audience can be more familiar with you?

Interchanges Background and Specialization

Nelson: Absolutely. So interchanges has been around over 20 years as a full service digital marketing agency, primarily focused on lead generation in the B2B space. And so you can see, ManufacturingChats and the logo behind me and on the screen here, that’s one of our brands where we’re focused specifically in the industrial manufacturing sector, industrial companies. So, having been in business in the digital marketing space over 20 years, we’ve seen the landscape evolve and change quite a bit. We’ll get into it in the conversation, but one of the reasons ManufacturingChats exists is because of that evolving landscape in the digital marketing arena.

Shannon: Beautiful. So, I know a lot of big agencies talk about niching down, but focusing on manufacturers, how did you end up in that space? And then also do you think that it was helpful to kind of narrow your focus on a certain field?

The Evolution to Niching Down

Nelson: Absolutely. It wasn’t helpful. It was critical. It was actually critical. And so way back, we started as a website design company. And started building websites. And then we started having websites aren’t any good if people aren’t going to them. So we started driving traffic through search engine optimization and paid Google campaigns, paid Yahoo campaigns, paid search ads, and then email marketing to drive traffic. And then we started driving traffic to the websites and we said, well, hey, now we have to convert as much of that traffic as possible. And so we built out our live chat infrastructure. Live chat window pops up on a website. We’ll talk more about that in more detail.

But what we did is we kind of built a partner program, you know, 19 years ago where companies would hire us to build a website, but then do all of those ancillary services. What we now know today is a digital marketing full service agency, right? Back then, there wasn’t really a thing called full service or digital marketing agency. We kind of built a partner program, started doing very well. Building up a customer base where they would put us on retainers and we would manage all those aspects to build the site, drive people to it, convert traffic, drive sales leads. And it was all about results. Driving results, driving results.

The longer, the more results we drove, the better our retention was, obviously. And about eight years ago, comes along the whole content, you know, social media started to proliferate. Social media marketing, content creation. Video, and as we started to kind of try to manage that for our customers and try to build services around that content creation, we realized that’s a whole nother arena. That’s a whole subset of skills. That’s a whole investment of time and effort and energy, not only on our side, but on the client side as well. So there’s the whole management of that, and we kind of had to take a good, hard look at ourselves and decide, do we want to continue to be that full service agency knowing that that component has to be a part of it, right.

Shannon: Fully managed, right? If you’re gonna fully manage, you gotta do it.

Nelson: So, we were like, no, we don’t wanna do that. So we kind of took a good hard look at ourselves and our client base and said, you know, what is the, first of all, what type of customers do we like working with the most? Who are our favorites? And then what service do they have where they get the most consistent results? Where they got the fastest results, where we have the highest retention, et cetera. And it all pointed to industrial companies and our live chat service. And so that’s kind of the evolution.

Shannon: That makes a lot of sense. And it’s really nice that you were able to adapt to something that you didn’t wanna do. ‘Cause I feel like a lot of times people are continuously adapting to the newer things in the marketing field. And I think that it’s really nice that you kind of paved the way to not do what everyone else is doing. Because I feel like that’s mostly everyone is constantly adjusting and adding to their agencies, I think all the time. But to be able to focus on something that doesn’t, just doesn’t have a need for that specific sector is kind of awesome.

Exploring the Industrial Niche

Nelson: Yeah. So we niched down and even though, you know, in industrial there’s so many different types of industrial.

Shannon: That’s an incredibly large field.

Nelson: There’s lots of niches within that niche. But you know, the industrial, B2B is the best way to say it. ‘Cause it’s chemical companies, it’s manufacturers of equipment, it’s distributors of stuff, you know, pumps and trucks and you name it. So, and one of the cool parts about that and what I enjoy most, you know, to your earlier question is, you know, I go to all these trade shows to visit my customers and meet new customers. And it’s just fascinating. The manufacturing world and the industrial world of what gets made and how these companies make it and how it fits into the bigger picture of our economy. It’s all fascinating to me. So I love that part of it.

Shannon: They’re the foundation. Probably like ultimately. Do you think it’s difficult to navigate such a large niche, quote unquote? ‘Cause you think of niche as something that’s more narrow, but that is like a very huge field. Is it ever kind of taxing to adjust to each sector of that niche?

Nelson: It’s not adjusting to each sector, but it is difficult to try to go to market in all the different sectors. It’s a continuous challenge and we’ve done, we’ve had success and we’ve tried some things and failed, but we’ve been figuring it out pretty well over the past eight years. But it does pose some unique challenges. For real.

Learning from Marketing Failures

Shannon: What do you do in those situations where you think that something’s gonna work and it doesn’t? How do you kind of adjust and move forward from that?

Nelson: You have to chalk it up as testing, right? Marketing is testing, you know what I mean? It’s a gamble. And there’s some research and there’s vetting and there’s things you can do to set yourself up for the best possible test, right? But in the event that things don’t work, take note of it. And then if you try something else or if you want to come back to that, make sure you do it in a different way. So marketing is testing. You always have to be learning from your wins, and you always have to learn from your failures as well. So as long as you learn from the failure, there’s value there.

Building Client Trust

Shannon: So you talk about a lot on your website, specifically about trust with your clients, which I think is a critical part of a relationship with a client for sure, in every aspect of work where there’s a clientele. How do you personally and maybe uniquely establish and maintain trust with your clients outside of just doing good work for them?

Nelson: Yeah, I think, I mean, it’s communication, right? It’s communication and then it’s also the understanding of their expectations on a continuous basis.  For us, the results are delivered almost daily because the chats roll in right from their website. For us, it’s maintain communication. Let ’em know that the doors are wide open. So if they have feedback, they email or call us. Our availability is 24/7. And so, we also have a sundown policy. If you reach out to us, you’re gonna hear back from us that day.

So make sure communication is there. Make sure that the honesty’s there. You know, if we mess up and something happens, that’s not ideal. We address it right away, say, Hey, sorry that happened, won’t happen again. Here’s what we’re doing to fix it. So treat people like you wanna be treated essentially.

Balancing Client Service and Team Wellbeing

Shannon: Yeah. No, I really appreciate the sundown policy. I don’t usually hear that, which I like a lot. It’s how do you kind of balance a “whatever it takes” kind of attitude with overworking your team possibly?

Nelson: That’s a really good question. And I think it boils down to role clarity with the team. What is the different team members’ individual roles, and what are they gonna be responsible for? And understanding what the client demands are so that there’s good alignment there. And then we’re also a lifestyle company, so we’re big on that question, meaning, we don’t overwork. At any time, if you start to feel overworked in any particular scenario within any particular client, you have to tell somebody right on your team and have a conversation about it. And we go right to work and adjusting, fixing, finding somebody else to help, help support that role. So it’s your responsibility if you start to feel overwhelmed and overworked to let other people on your team know, so that we can approach it as a team.

Shannon: That’s really incredible. I feel like there’s not a lot of institutions for lack of better phrasing in place in a lot of agencies and companies to be able to discuss that when it comes up. So it’s really nice that you have kind of that open environment to be able to navigate that because I’m sure that there’s a lot of spaces in which you just do it or you just do poor work because you’re overworked and there’s not really a communication there. Or the pressure is a lot where, you know, it doesn’t feel like it’s open to communication.

Learning Through Experience

Nelson: A hundred percent. And we’ve learned the hard way, you know what I mean? Because we’ve been in those situations where clients can be demanding sometimes because their business livelihood depends on what we’re doing for them. And so, if they’re demanding and there’s a handful of clients that all of a sudden become demanding and there’s a lot of work that has to get done and there’s a lot of projects that have to get managed.

We’ve been in situations in the past where we had some team members that as leaders we weren’t communicating to them. If you start to get overwhelmed, let us know. And it only took a couple times of that happening where we made it. We went the other way. We made it very clear. We continue to make it very clear to our team. If you get overwhelmed, it’s your responsibility to tell somebody. If you don’t tell somebody, that’s your fault, right? And so that crystal clear communication within the team environment allows for comfort and bravery, courage, whatever you wanna call it, to go ask for help. It’s okay to go ask for help if you get overwhelmed.

Shannon: Yeah, opening that door is really helpful. And establishing that that’s an option is really, really awesome too, because I think that that clarity is enough to make someone feel more comfortable in their position. I think that it’s very difficult for a lot of people to ask for help because it kind of feels like they’re not doing good enough for themselves. But I don’t think that’s obviously always true. So it’s really lovely to be able to have an environment where you feel comfortable doing it.

Empowering Team Members

Nelson: Absolutely. And, to our CEO’s credit, Chris Patterson, our CEO, he’s our founder. And, he basically tells everybody, you’re the CEO of your business, quote unquote, whatever your roles and responsibilities are within the bigger operation. You’re the CEO of your business. So, you figure out how to inspect what you expect from the team members that you’re managing. You make sure that you know how to inspect what you expect as you’re assigning tasks to the client, making sure the client gets you what you need. And so he says, you’re the CEO of your business. Take care of your business. Treat it like your own because it is. And that allows for him and other leaders in our company not to have to micromanage. Because we’re entrusting other leaders to be their own CEOs.

Shannon: Yeah, no, I think that putting that responsibility on someone can maybe be a little stressful, but it’s also really important for them to understand that, you know, that’s your work and you should be able to be proud of it. And if you need help with it, then to be proud of it, then you can still do that. Yeah, and I think that’s like kind of a good policy to have or a good slogan for lack of better phrasing.

So with the sundown policy, do you have people in different areas of the country or areas of the world that are able to answer questions at different times?

Nelson: We do. But our sundown policy typically means, you know, by 8:00 PM on eastern at the end of the work day.

Shannon: Kind of like the end of the work day. Okay. That makes a lot more sense. Yeah. I was just making sure, ’cause I was just curious how it was possible. I was like, like, tell me if you’re overworked, but you might be, you know, just, sundown, not 24/7.

Fun Break: The Game

Shannon: Actually this is a perfect part ’cause I was gonna switch topics, but now we can do the game. So, my first question, I’ll do a marketing related question so that it seems like I’m not going crazy off the walls already. So, if you had two shoes. This is, you have to, in a scenario where you can either make a client happy or your staff happy, what would you pick?

Nelson: It would depend on the client. I’ll say that first and foremost, right? And certainly on the situation. But, you know, we’re always gonna back our team. Our internal team, they have to be happy because if they’re not happy, then the client, the other clients that we have, aren’t gonna be happy if our internal team isn’t happy.

Shannon: I feel like it always comes down to like, if you’re in a situation like that and there’s a choice, it’s usually the team that you’re gonna pick because it’s unlikely that depending on the situation, ’cause of course, like if you’re working with an incredibly large company or business and it’s crucial that you do well with them. Even if it’s very difficult and stressful on a team, then okay, yes. Maybe the team might not be like the happiest. But it’s also like maybe it’s just a stressful situation and that’s normal, but I think a lot of times in a situation where there’s an option of one or the other, it’s usually the clients probably maybe not being the easiest to deal with. And sometimes you have to please them because they’re a really big client and they’re important. But in other situations, I feel like it’s like, maybe this isn’t good relationship. You can go with someone else or, you know, respect.

Partner vs. Vendor Mentality

Nelson: And on that topic, one of the things we learned over the agency years is be selective if we work with, right. We always used to say, we want clients that look at us as a partner. Don’t treat us as a vendor. Treat us as a partner in your business. Right. And so we threw around the term for some clients where, hey, they have vendor mentality, you know, we’re gonna serve them. But, you know, if something happened and we lost them, we wouldn’t be upset because they treat us like a vendor. So, you know, ideal world, you wanna have relationships. To your point earlier, you wanna have good vibes with the people that you’re helping out, right? Those businesses. So you wanna be friends with ’em.

Shannon: I feel like some of the best agencies that do some of the best work is acting as an extension of another business like we are, even though you’re using our services and we are a separate entity from you, it’s we work together as if we’re one thing. Because that’s, especially if you’re a full service marketing agency, you’re doing a lot for them. Like where it’s like if it was a bigger company, maybe they would just have a team like yours inside of their company, but they’re not. So that choice should be able to be more intertwined than just, okay, I’m hiring this person. And it’s like, it’s not a person that with multiple people, it’s like a whole business that you can talk to like that? As long as that’s the kind of relationship, I think that’s the ideal relationship for a client.

Nelson: It really is. It really is. And you know, the more you do for a client as an agency, the higher that expectation is that they’re gonna treat you like a partner. Right. And we’ve had clients where we were doing so much for them. The results, the numbers were off the chart. The revenue we were helping them produce was just in incredible and they just treated us like a vendor. So we weren’t excited about working with them. You know what I mean?

So what’s interesting is we’ve moved and shifted to really focusing on the chat as a solution. We’ve been able to really approach it in a different way where they typically have an agency they work with already, a marketing agency they work with, so we don’t get the warm and fuzzies part of their team anymore. But we play a very specific role and we play it very, very, very well.

The Chat Solution Advantage

Shannon: How does the chat fix that problem specifically?

Nelson: Because it’s so, it’s a pretty simple concept and the measures of success are so apparent. For example, you know, if they have a chat bot on their website, you know, AI or if they don’t have chat on their website, if they do, we offer a month long free trial. So a 30 day free trial. That way we can show, we put our money where our mouth is, show them the results, that they can compare actual data set for an entire month with our solution. Compared to what they had, whether it was no chat or some AI chat bot.

And when they see the increase in chat conversations and the increase (if they don’t have a chat, obviously there’s a massive increase in chat conversations. If they have a bot, they see a pretty significant increase in chat conversations) and quality of engagements with their visitors. So literally within the first week, because the chat start rolling in as soon as we put ours on, the difference is easily observable. So there’s no gray area. It’s, Hey, we see what we had, we can see what’s happening now. And so it makes it really easy to, uh, for them to observe the value.

Shannon: Okay. That’s actually extremely helpful. I think that constant communication can always solve a lot more problems than I think people realize.

Leadership Accessibility

Shannon: Are you easily accessible for a client, you specifically, because I know that there’s a lot of bigger companies, a lot of times it’s difficult to reach people at the top and I was just wondering if that was something that you offer perhaps?

Nelson: From a email and cell phone, call me, email me anytime. I’m absolutely accessible.

Shannon: Awesome. I respect that. Not that if you said no, I wouldn’t be like, wow, you’re a bad person.

Nelson: No. As we grow and scale, will that always be the case? I can’t promise it, but we certainly pride ourselves on that availability. Right. And we have a team structure set up too. Like for example, if Sony needs to give us feedback, we have everything built and tied into Slack. So if they email a certain email address that we give them for feedback, for the chats that are being sent over to ’em. They email that it hits me, it hits one, two other my chat managers and gets put into the slack for our chat operations team.

So the communication’s immediate across our entire organization, but me and our other leaders have visibility on all those communications and if it requires us to jump in, we’re going to, and our customers appreciate that.

Shannon: Yeah. It’s good to be able to also stay on top of those things like you, because you have access to seeing them regularly. Like you can delegate over whether that’s something that it’s worth for you to talk to or that someone else can handle it.

Communication Example

Nelson: I’ll give you a real world example. Sometimes, a new customers, especially, I’ll get copied on their sales chats. So when a chat finishes on a website, we email the chat transcript within about five to 10 minutes to their teams. And so, and they just, there’s multiple distributions that they set up for the different type of chat inquiries, but sometimes I’ll see the and they come from [email protected] is the email, and sometimes people will reply to the person in the chat. Just, they won’t hit reply all. They’ll just hit reply and it just comes back to chats at interchanges. I see their reply. They’re trying to actually connect and reply to the person that was in the chat and I have to email and I’ll email them back right away and say, Hey, I think you were trying to reach out to John Smith at this company. Here’s the address he provided in the chat. And I’ll let ’em know that like, oh, thanks. You’re right.

Shannon: Oh, that’s awesome. That’s also, I think, adds a level of personability too because, you know, it’s kind of nice when, you know, the president reaches out to you to say, Hey, you know, you’re kind of, you messed up a little bit. You might not wanna that in this opportunity. People are happy to hear that.

Nelson: Yep. And to my point earlier about when we niche down on our service. We’ve pride ourselves on being able to have our eyes on all the accounts and the results in a really, really high value way.

Benefits of Niching Down

Shannon: That’s really good. Yeah. I think that that is a lot of what normally people talk about when they talk about nicheing down is that it’s helpful to kind of see every step of this process more than you would if you had a really wide range of scope. I don’t know where I stand yet because a lot of people really are very passionate about niching down or definitely not doing it. And I, I really like to talk about it because it’s nice to get everyone’s opinions, but I think that there’s a lot of things that are stated on a regular basis that I think is familiar to people that do or don’t.

Nelson: And, you know, I am a believer in niche. In the niches there’s riches, right? So niching down, certainly has its place. If you can carve out a niche, ’cause it really makes everything easier, your marketing, your ads, you know, if you can really focus on a niche, you have a chance to scale. And then there’s opportunities we’re exploring for that as well.

Shannon: I am writing down this quote. I was like, I kind of love that.

Nelson: Which one? Which one? What?

Shannon: In the niches there’s riches.

Nelson: Yeah. And that is not my quote. I heard it from somebody years ago.

Shannon: Well, you know, hopefully we’re not stealing from them. Hopefully they don’t have it like patented. Yeah, Well maybe I’ll say editors. Don’t put that as the title because we might be sued.

Game Time: Fun Questions

Shannon: The game. We’re back to the game. I’m gonna ask you an absurd question next. It’ll keep you on your toes, you know, get outta your marketing brain. How many eggs do you think that you could eat in a day?

Nelson: How many eggs could I eat in a day?

Shannon: It can be any style. They just have to be eaten in a waking day, I suppose, instead of like 24 hour period.

Nelson: 12 to 15.

Shannon: Okay. That’s normal. Some people say absurd things. I ask this question a lot just because I don’t know why I asked this question a lot. It’s just a thing that has popped into my brain.

Nelson: I love eggs.

Shannon: I love eggs. 12 to 15 is is a normal answer though. I’ve told people have told me eight dozen.

Nelson: That’s amazing. Eight dozen.

Shannon: I think they die. I think they die on the spot from like high cholesterol. 

Would you rather get a dollar every time you complimented a stranger or a hundred dollars every time you insulted a stranger?

Nelson: Oh, dollar every time for compliments, for sure. Yeah.

Shannon: Yay. I don’t know. I’m waiting for someone to say the a hundred dollars to insult because I’m like.

Nelson: I don’t, I don’t insult people. I, I operate, try to operate on high vibes.

Shannon: Yeah, no, I agree. I don’t think I could insult someone if I knew that I was getting a hundred dollars. I think I’d feel worse about insulting someone because I’d be like, oh my God, I was rewarded for this. Horrible.

Marketing Lead Generation

Shannon: We have another marketing question, I guess this is marketing ish, LinkedIn or email outreach for leads. What do you think is more valuable or I guess more fruitful?

Nelson: Oh gosh, I prefer LinkedIn. We’ve had more success with email. So that’s a tough one. I do both. I use both, and in fact, I call, I text, I do outreach. I’m professionally persistent. If I have done my research and there’s a company I know I can help, I will continue to reach out to them forever and ever and ever. In fact, my record is a company that I reached out to for 11 years and they finally took me up on my free trial this last November. They finally took me up on my free trial.

Shannon: Congratulations. Oh, that’s incredible. I always, my boss is, maybe I shouldn’t reveal this. I don’t know what if it happens, but I don’t think he’ll care. My boss has been trying to talk to get in with UPS. He wants to get in with UPS so badly. He is like, we can design something for you. Let us design something for you. And he is, he talks to them I don’t even know. Every day.

Nelson: Don’t give up. It’ll happen. It’ll happen.

Shannon: That’s kind of incredible. I’m gonna tell him that and I think that’ll make ’em happy.

Nelson: Right. So it’s not email or LinkedIn. It’s yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Keep reaching out if you believe you can add value to somebody. Just keep reaching out and eventually they’ll either be like, leave me alone. Don’t ever reach out to me again. Please.

Shannon: Please stop restraining order.

Nelson: Or they’ll give in and say, Hey, you know what? You’ve been persistent. Let’s do it. Let’s try something.

Shannon: I am not, I can’t say, maybe this is not a good thing, but I feel bad when people reach out like an incredible amount. But I can’t be like, please stop. ’cause I feel really bad about it, so I just kind of like let them do it. Which, a lot of people do that, which is not great because you don’t get a set answer. But I also like, I can’t tell someone you, what if, I don’t know. I feel bad.

Nelson: Not interested, and I get cold called all the time and I get emailed all the time and I’ll respond to some people and I’ll say, not interested to others. It’s just, it’s part of life. It’s part of the gig, you know? It’s part of the sales hustle.

Cold Calling Success

Shannon: It’s surprising. I finding out recently, I had a podcast guest on that actually does cold calls. Like not even just like cold calling is a broader category, which like can be, you know, cold emailing, cold, whatever, but like physical calls to people and I’m like, how do you get them to respond to you? I don’t even open a call from someone that I don’t know, and I’m like, but he says is pretty successful.

Nelson: Probably where I get the most success myself is making that call.

Shannon: That’s so interesting.

Nelson: Now, a lot of times they’ll have seen my emails and seen my LinkedIn messages and, and my follow up approach, by the way, I go by a system called VBRS. Valid business reasons. So when I reach out to somebody, I try to include a valid business reason. Like, here’s an article I saw about your industry, or here’s a referral I can make for you because I think you also work with these companies. Here’s somebody who might be a good customer for you.

Send ’em a gift. Give ’em compliments about something you read about ’em online, so give ’em a valid business reason. And if you can inject those valid business reasons in your follow up, you’re not a consistent annoying, Hey, following up again. Hey, never use the words follow up in your email outreach or LinkedIn outreach. Hey, I’m following up. Following up is a bad term to use. So, hey, I wanted to share something with you. Hey, I thought you might be interested in, right? So language controls the discussion and the discussion controls the relationship, and so that language is key for following up effectively.

Shannon: I definitely agree. I think that if someone, I think being forthright with talking about your services is the worst thing to do as well. No one wants to hear about you if you’re, if you’re contacting them to get from something from them. I think that it’s definitely helpful to add value to them by not talking about your business. Or say offer something that you can do for them that’s not just a general thing. Like, something that’s specific I think is really helpful. Because without insulting them, because of course you can’t be like, we design websites. I can’t go up to someone and be like, your website’s really bad. We could do, we could make it better for you. If you just, you know, pay for it.

Effective Outreach Approach

Nelson: As to that point though, as a part of my process, if I’ve done the research, I have a tool where I can tell how many visitors are going to their website each month. And if they don’t have a chat on their website, I know from 20 years of our customer performance data almost to a t how much opportunity they’re missing out on. And so I will put that in email, say, Hey, I’ve done my research, you know, here’s how many visitors you get on average, 20 years of my customer data. Here’s about how much opportunity you’re missing out on, if you’d like to explore free tests to see what that, what kind of impact that would have let me know.

So I do reach out very specifically about the service with our free test offer and with research, and I think if they see that you’ve spent some time researching their company and you’re not just on their list as the next person on their list, a lot of times they appreciate that as well.

Shannon: I don’t think it’s a bad thing to point out that something could be better. I think there’s just a way of doing it. I think that some people don’t do it tastefully. And that’s not gonna help you out. That’s just gonna offend someone.

There’s certain things that you just shouldn’t bring up. Like I am never gonna tell someone that their website is bad. Because they could have put a lot of time and effort in that and I would’ve no idea when they could have put no effort into it. And they actually really do need our services and they’d be happy to hear that I told them it’s crap, but I would never do that because that is horrible. And you know, have better people skills than that.

Nelson: Absolutely.

Shannon: But yeah, that is, I think that there’s just a way of talking to people and fine tuning that for outreach is something that is incredibly important and valuable.

Nelson: Agreed.

Conclusion

Shannon: Well this is actually all the time we have today. I’m sorry to cut it short, but I feel like this was a very awesome conversation. Yeah. I really appreciate this and I also, I think I’ll say it every podcast and I hope I never stop saying it, is that I really learned a lot today. So thank you so much for, you know, contributing to the conversation.

Nelson: Love it. Shannon, thank you so much for having me. Have an amazing, amazing day.

Shannon: Thank you so much, and thank you so much for everyone that has been watching or listening. Don’t forget to like and subscribe to humor stories like this. Appreciate it. Have a lovely day.