[Fully Managed] Josh Webber Ep. 100 – Podcast Highlights and Transcript

Shannon: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Fully Managed Podcast, the podcast where we discuss marketing and business tips to help assist you on your business journey. I’m your host, Shannon, Penji’s partnership coordinator, and I’m joined here today with a very special guest, Josh Webber from Big Red Jelly. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Josh: Thanks for having me, Shannon. I’m excited.

Professional Background

Shannon: Thank you. It is awesome to have you on. So could you please tell us, me, the audience, everyone, a little bit about yourself? Your professional journey and kind of how you’ve made it to this point in your career?

Josh: Yes. I’ll be short. I am an agency owner. I’m co-founder and CEO of Big Red Jelly. We are an agency based here in Provo, Utah. 23 employees. We’ve been around for seven years. But I’ve been in agency life, right? Hashtag agency life for a long time. Let me just say that. Ever since I graduated college, I’ve always been attracted to marketing. I’ve worked in big agencies, I’ve worked in small agencies, I’ve worked with big brands, I’ve worked with small brands. And long story short, my co-founder and I set off seven years ago to start Big Red Jelly because we just felt like we could do it better. And so here we are, running our agency. We’re growing really quickly and I’m excited to be here. So it’s a little bit about me.

Shannon: How did you meet your co-founder?

Josh: He is my brother.

Shannon: Oh wow. That’s interesting. I feel like I should have done more research.

Josh: For better or for worse. He’s my brother, but we’re very different. His strengths are my weaknesses and vice versa. He’s the yang and the… it’s a good duo.

Shannon: That’s really nice to recognize. I mean, I’m trying to think of if I have the dynamic with my sister. I don’t think we’d ever be able to start a company together. We’d probably kill each other.

Working with Family

Josh: It can be tough. It can be tough.

Shannon: Well, what do you think is the most difficult part about that? Is family business?

Josh: I think it’s important. There’s a couple challenges and, to be honest, it was rocky at the beginning. There were definitely some hurdles. You have to clearly outline areas of responsibility in swim lanes, right? You have to say, “Hey, this is your turf. This is mine. These are your KPIs. These are mine.” I have a bad habit of trying to micromanage and step into other people’s areas too much.

Shannon: Mm-hmm.

Josh: And when I did that and before when that was too ambiguous, that would lead to conflict. But as soon as you kind of find the right seats and you sit there, you can rock and roll. I think you work with anyone, so.

Shannon: Oh, well that’s a really good lesson to learn too, and to be able to learn it through doing it is really nice. ‘Cause I’ve seen, I’ve worked in a lot of Italian restaurants where family businesses are not working out and they’re throwing things at each other. So that is not agency life. You would think that it’d be a little more professional than that and not throwing pizza around, but you never know.

The Story Behind Big Red Jelly

Shannon: What do you think? Well, one, I think that people watching will wanna know if they don’t know the background – I do because I’m a professional and I know everything about you except for that you and your brother started the business. Could you explain the big red jellyfish? The whole lore around the name of your business.

Josh: I’m glad you asked. I thought you would never ask. Again, kind of the short answer is going back to the genesis of Big Red Jelly, when my brother and I knew we wanted to start our own agency, after having worked in big agencies for big brands for several years. One thing that just kind of kept rubbing me the wrong way was there was a lot of inefficiencies. There’s a lot of fat, there’s a lot of fluff at that level. You’re kind of, there’s just a lot of unnecessary stuff going on, and you throw the word creative and strategy in every phrase, and all of a sudden, you know, you’re charging a client 10x what you probably should.

So when we set off to start our own agency, we didn’t have a name. We didn’t know the brand, but we just knew we wanted to be efficient and transparent. Long story short, that’s kind of the fun part, right? You’re starting a company, you’re like, “Hey, what’s our name gonna be?” It’s like, that’s the fun part. What’s our logo?

I’m a big National Geographic fan, and at that particular point, I received an email from NatGeo that they just discovered the red jellyfish off the coast of Japan. So this was 2017, September 2017, and I clicked into it. I was fascinated and I see a picture of it. It turns out it’s the world’s most efficient animal in terms of what it consumes and the energy it puts out into the ocean.

And so we’re like, “Hey, redjelly.com was taken by a foodie blogger in the UK, someone who made red jello or something like that.” So we went with Big Red Jelly and that’s been our mast ever since.

Shannon: Ah, well that’s a beautiful story. I love a unique story about why someone creates, the kind of mission behind what you wanna accomplish with the business and then making it a unique name. I was, do you think it’s your favorite animal?

Josh: It is got to be right? It has to be.

Shannon: It doesn’t have to be, but…

Josh: I have yet to see one in the wild. I have not seen one in the flesh. And maybe that’s, I gotta do it. I gotta find them.

Shannon: Maybe you do. You gotta swim with the big red jellyfish. Do you think they’re poisonous? Usually the brightly colored animals are.

Josh: I can’t remember if it said it was. I think most jellyfish have some form of toxin, right? They can sting you, but I should know that now I’m gonna search.

Shannon: They don’t look like they have tendrils, so they might be fine. They usually look like they just have legs. Which is interesting.

Josh: Yeah, it’s a weird looking jellyfish.

Shannon: You should change your name to weird looking jellyfish.com

Josh: Potentially that’s the rebrand right there.

Shannon: Domain probably is not taken. I mean, I would really wonder what would be on that website if they did.

Efficiency and Creativity in Agency Work

Shannon: So your goal is to have an efficient company without any fluff. What do you do in a scenario where you think that a part isn’t running efficiently? Like what is your strategy to make sure that it’s constantly doing what you set out to do?

Josh: Yeah, I think there’s a lot of misunderstandings in the creative space where, for example, here at Big Red Jelly, one thing we really evangelize is that really well-defined and refined processes and world-class creativity are not mutually exclusive. In fact, I think they need each other.

Our team loves that and they embrace that. So for example, we have great processes here that keep us on track, keep us on scope, keep us moving forward. And when you have really good processes and you’ve got great project management, great account management, it actually frees up way more time so that you can then go and do the thing that you were hired to do, which is to be creative and be a strategist.

So when I hear kind of these misconceptions of, “oh, I’m creative, I don’t like…” If I was to give you a blank canvas with just absolutely nothing and just say draw, it’s actually kind of hard to just like get started. But if I give you like a shape or some parameters or a square to stay within, all of a sudden it’s a lot easier, right? So I think that’s one core principle of remaining efficient and just kind of aligning our core values along that principle. It helps.

Shannon: Can you give an example of something that you think is crucial to this kind of dynamic?

Josh: In terms of process?

Shannon: Yeah. Like, do you have something that you incorporated that you think is unique that’s a part of your process? I know you’re assuming that you have an extensive kind of template for everything, but do you think that there’s something that is more crucial than others?

Templates and Technology in Design

Josh: Oh, I could go into many areas. You used the word template, right? That’s another thing that I think people have kind of, I’m gonna be honest here. This might offend some people, but I think the design community, and I’m a designer by trade, I’m a brand strategist. Our team is very talented. I think the community can tend to be a little pretentious at times. We’ll turn our nose up to the word template. “Oh my gosh. You use Canva,” you know, it’s like…

So, just like a web developer, someone who custom codes might turn their nose up at a CMS, like a WordPress or a Wix or a Shopify. When we really dig deeper, I think it’s just because those technologies and platforms have disrupted the space so much that they feel a little bit threatened. So don’t feel threatened, right? Embrace it. Just like AI, right? If we’re really scared and not wanting to use AI, like I think that’s a mistake. It’s really best to embrace it. It’s an accelerant. It’s not gonna change what you do. It’s gonna accelerate what you’re good at or what you’re bad at, right? So use technology accordingly.

AI as a Tool, Not a Replacement

Shannon: I 100% agree and I really like your note on AI relating it. ‘Cause that’s exactly what I thought of when you said that. It’s interesting because I definitely understand the reason there are so many reasons why people are hesitant about using AI or incorporating it into their business. And I completely understand the fears of like it replacing an entire job or something like that, or not doing as good of a job as someone who’s already doing something adjacent to that.

But I think that it’s a really helpful tool, not a replacement for a person. I think in some aspects it can replace some things. But having it as a tool and embracing it as that is a game changer. It can help, it can do exactly what you were kind of mentioning in the beginning of like, it is basically something that can help you along where you’re not doing these tedious activities anymore that take up so much of your time.

You can just be doing what is actually worth your brainpower and something that’s beneficial to the company or the business or whatever it may be. Whereas this tedious task that you can have a little robot do for you is awesome. It’s insane. And I understand the people that are worried about it to an extent.

I was so worried about using it because, not even for the fear of it’ll take over of the human race or something like that. But the idea that I’m someone that likes to exercise my brain as much as possible, so I won’t even Google something if I think that I can figure it out in my brain. If it’s in there, I’m just gonna try to pull it out. Because I don’t want to get to the point where I have early onset Alzheimer’s because I am not thinking about things constantly. I was like, if I get reliant on Chat GPT, I’m gonna be looking at it for everything and then my brain is gonna turn to mush because I’m not exercising things, but I don’t think you have to use it for everything.

Josh: I totally agree with you. I’m pulling from the book Good to Great. Which is a great book for those who have not read it. But unless you’re a tech company, right? So if you’re an entrepreneur, a freelancer creative, someone listening to this, unless you’re a tech company, technology does not replace or fix bad processes, bad positioning, bad creative. It’s an accelerant. It’s just gas, right?

So if things are structured correctly, you’ve got good processes, good positioning, you’ve got a good brand. Then the right technology, like AI will accelerate, just like you were saying. Like it will make a lot of the churn work super efficient. But if you’ve got some stuff wrong at the foundational level, it can create issues in my opinion. So just kind of a word of caution.

I totally agree. I’ve been saying this for years. I’m kind of trying to evangelize this in the marketing space, but online advertising, things that used to be non commodities are now being commoditized. It’s just so quick and easy. Therefore, what does that put more emphasis on? I think two things. True creative and strategy, right? Because if you have AI that can almost write as good as you, design as good as you, it can execute as good as anyone. I think we’ll get to that point. It puts extra emphasis still on what makes a human being a human being. I think it’s those two things. It’s true strategy and true creative. Clients and businesses are still gonna be out there saying, “okay, I’m still totally overwhelmed by how much there is to do. Give me the right building blocks” and then someone can come in and do that.

The Human Element in Business

Shannon: Yeah. I 100% agree with that as well. I think that if you… I think someone gave me this example a while ago when talking about AI, about if you have someone that is a bad writer and you give them Chat GPT or whatever AI to be able to help them…

Josh: Yeah.

Shannon: It’s still going to be bad writing. It doesn’t negate that you have to be good at your craft to utilize this tool, and then maybe in the future it might become more efficient in the way that it can do better than you can. I don’t know, but I think that it is a testament to exactly what you said about how people will then value human-centered approaches more.

I’m not worried about necessarily replacement because I think that the more advanced that AI and tools like that get and become more efficient at doing human processes, I think people will value humans in workspaces even more because they don’t want everything done by a machine.

Josh: Yeah, you’re totally right. The trends don’t lie. Like there’s a major comeback with farmers’ markets, for example, post covid. Those are interesting statistics to look at. Etsy is blowing up. Right. Why? We’ll still always have luxury handmade products and those will always be a premium. There’s just something about the human element that we like.

There’s something about live music, there’s something about an acoustic version of a song. There’s something about the farmer’s market and I agree. I think it might actually just accelerate the value of those things. It’s like, “wow, that’s rare.” So it’ll be interesting to see what happens.

Shannon: No, it’s definitely something that’s kind of beautiful about humanity almost because I think that it’s getting kind of philosophical, but humans do crave humans. Technology can get so advanced and that’s fantastic and helpful and great and sometimes it’s damaging. But humans will always crave personal ability. COVID was so bad because we could not interact in the same way that we could. The loneliness epidemic is insane because technology has created this kind of rift in how we communicate and it’s an incredible thing because you are able to communicate when you can’t see each other in person, but it’s also really difficult when it gets in the way of wanting to be in person.

And I think that the more that it advances and the more that it gets in the way of that, the more there will maybe be this kind of revolution of, “Oh no, we actually do really care about human to human contact” and this is something that we can embrace technologically, but also we really value people, and we want to deal with people and we don’t wanna just deal with a robot.

It’s like automated phone messaging that makes me wanna die when I’m talking to my insurance company and I can’t talk to a real person. I don’t wanna talk to a robot. They’re not efficient. And even if they do become efficient, they can’t hear my anger or my upset about my problem and they don’t care about me. They’re just a robot.

And I think that goes into agency work. I’ll bring it back to less philosophical – goes into agency work because people do wanna deal with a real person. And what I love and value about smaller agencies is a lot of times with bigger agencies, they can’t reach the CEO, they can’t reach the founder. And it’s nice to have systems in place so that you don’t have to deal with those things necessarily, like complaints and all that. But sometimes people really value when they can receive a response from the person at the top that cares and they feel cared about.

Josh: You’re speaking my language, Shannon.

Shannon: That’s human. I just wanted to rant. You’re the guest.

Josh: No, great. I love that point. That’s funny. I give a presentation from time to time, particularly geared towards small business owners and marketing and branding, and that’s one of the things I remind them of is like, lean into the fact that when someone walks through your doors, or even if you’re e-commerce, someone orders from you.

How many times do I hear that, right? Where they’re like, “Hey, let’s say I’m designing a website” and dozens of times at this point where I’m working on the team page, and they’re like, “Hey, I don’t wanna show the teams. I don’t want people to know how small I am.” And I have to stop them and say, what are you talking about? Like this is a huge differentiator.

Now if I pick up the phone and call Amazon, what’s the chance that Jeff Bezos is gonna pick up the phone? Like 0%?

Shannon: Yep.

Josh: If I call your bakery, or I call your e-commerce shop, it’s like a 50% chance you’re gonna pick up the phone. Right? So lean into, again, going all the way back to what we were talking about before, lean into the farmer’s market, Etsy artisan, owner-led vibe. People are really thirsty for that.

So totally agree. And that’s, even for my own agency, we don’t want to scale to be an agency of a hundred, 200, 300 employees. No offense to those that are, that’s cool. We instead want to get to about 30, 35 and we’re gonna cap it at that. That’s our dream team. And we’re just gonna be best in the business, best at our craft in each role. And that’s us. Because I like that vibe.

Shannon: Yeah, I like that vibe too. Penji is one of those companies, those 200 plus. So not that there’s anything wrong with that either. But it’s just something that’s really lovely, I find, and I do agree that honing in your craft, that you can actually put more resources towards perfecting each kind of position when you have a smaller team, which I think is really lovely.

Whereas it’s really hard to focus on the individual when you have so many employees, making sure that they also feel like they feel cared about and that they’re useful and we appreciate them and thank you. And it’s hard to, you can, as a CEO care about all of your employees and have a large company, but it is very difficult to convey that other than benefits.

Josh: True. I have such an admiration for those big companies. You think Chick-fil-A, for example. I think they’ve got a pretty strong brand and great customer service. You know, anytime you ask for something, what do they respond with? “My pleasure.” Right?

And I think man, it’s hard building culture just with 23 employees that we have now. Like, when you get two or three levels down from the top. You know, how much is lost. So just, it does make me admire companies like a Penji, like Chick-fil-A, where they’ve got a really powerful brand, great customer service, like a lot of work’s gone into that. So on the flip side, you know, it’s impressive.

Shannon: Yeah, definitely is. And I think that that’s definitely a testament to those people that can still have that level of personability, but also be large, which is uncommon to say the least.

Agency Development and Growth

Shannon: Okay, so switching gears. I was wondering – it’s really nice to be able to talk to founders. A lot of times I talk to like marketing coordinators, which is also lovely. But I was wondering, is there any significant improvements that you’ve made to this agency that kind of stand out to you since you’ve started it that are crucial to the development that you’ve made to now?

Josh: Yeah, if I was speaking to… because I get that question a decent amount, which is a great question. Like what advice – this might not be your question but this is how I’m interpreting – what would you, if I could go back in time, do more of or less of? What advice would I give to another founder who’s just starting? I’ll speak specifically to agencies, well, I think this is applicable to any industry.

I cannot emphasize this enough, but first you have to identify the right seats on the bus. It’s like, what is your team look like? What are the seats? What is the org chart? And if it’s just you as the founder, like it’s literally just you, then I still want you to sit down and draw out the org chart and then put different – literally put your name into those different spots and say, “okay, I’m CFO now I’m CEO now I’m salesman now.” And you have to do that.

I wish I did that a lot sooner. We just kinda go for it. And then we kinda hire when things feel busy and stressful. So you’ve got to lock in what the seats are on the bus, and then it’s just about finding the right people for the right seats. Again, from Good to Great. As soon as I hit that, again, shout out to the team, which took a long time to get there, but as soon as we got the right people on the right seats with the right processes, it’s game over. It’s just growth.

So that’s what you should be doing as a founder. Like that’s all you should be doing really, after those first few years where, I mean, at the same time, like revenue, you should obsess over whatever it takes to grow revenue, like as a CEO and a founder, I think that’s your primary objective. But of course, that would be my piece of advice.

Shannon: I think that’s definitely very helpful. I think that it’s definitely common for someone to start in an agency and kind of fill what is needed when they see it, but to know kind of a plan for that is definitely better for the long run of not just doing it on the spot and then it’s…

Josh: It’s really tempting to create roles for people, and I’ve made that mistake before. I’m not saying it’s always a mistake, but it usually is. Like, you get someone who’s super good at this one thing and they join your agency. But that’s really not your niche and you didn’t have a need for that in the first place. You’re like, “oh, let’s just, I like that person and they’re really good at that. Let me create a role for it.” You kind of have to avoid that temptation. It is a slow slope.

Shannon: Yeah. No, that makes perfect sense. And to avoid things like that, especially that gets not only you, but also them into kind of a bad spot of like, you know, we hired you, but we don’t actually need you, and now we have to figure out what to do with you.

Josh: Yeah. You wanna do something you don’t like.

Shannon: Yeah.

Josh: That’s like, you have the right people, but you’ve got the wrong seats, right? And so you can have these different conundrums or you can have the wrong people in the right seats, and we know what that’s about and that’s not fun either.

Shannon: Yeah, no, people don’t like that. People don’t like not doing what they don’t like and they don’t produce good work because of that too. They can be hard workers too and still not efficiently be completing their tasks because that’s not what’s meant for them. And that’s not really anyone’s fault necessarily. It’s just figuring out when that’s happening too.

Fun Questions

Shannon: But, okay, so now we’re switching gears again ’cause now it’s game time. Okay. I’ll ask – do you want an absurd question first or do you want a marketing “would you rather” first?

Josh: Give me the absurd first. Let’s start at the top.

Shannon: This one is not a “would you rather,” it’s just a question that I ask everyone now because it’s a fascinating question to me. Won’t sound fascinating. I think it says a lot about a person. How many eggs do you think that you can consume in a waking day?

Josh: Can I cook them however I want?

Shannon: You can cook them however, they can be prepared wherever you want. They can have other things involved in them, they just have to be consumed.

Josh: I would obviously go scrambled. I think that’s probably the way to go. If you’re doing hardboiled eggs, maybe have to… I think the taste would get to me before the quantity. It’d be like, I’m so tired of this.

Shannon: Mm-hmm.

Josh: How many I think I could do… it’s easy to put down a few eggs, let’s be honest. I think at least if my life depended on it…

Shannon: Yeah. If you’re like in a competition, someone had a gun to your head…

Josh: 50 or 60 I think.

Shannon: Alright. Okay. Alright. You might have the record.

Josh: I could do 20, like if you force 20 in the morning, as soon as I wake up…

Shannon: Early afternoon. And then you could totally do that. You could totally do that. You could do that. Anyone could do that.

Josh: No, I eat three if I… Sometimes I end up eating three eggs in the morning because I put too many things in my eggs and I need another egg to balance it out. But yeah, two eggs is the ideal. If I need a third egg, I almost can’t finish my food. The third egg is the tipping point for me in one meal. So I can’t imagine…

Josh: Stronger guy. You know…

Shannon: This all roots from, there’s multiple things. I saw a video of a girl that was talking about her boyfriend in a fantasy league, where their punishment was to eat their age in eggs.

Josh: Ooh.

Shannon: And apparently it was so difficult that the next year they had the same punishment and he was having nightmares, sweating over having to do it again, which sounds like, and they were like mid twenties, so I’m imagining, maybe 25. Yeah. Maybe it’s really hard and I don’t know.

Josh: But I feel like if I have an omelet, I’m putting six eggs in that omelet.

Shannon: Yeah. That’s not bad. I don’t know. You and one other person have said around 50. So…

Josh: Could I have 10 omelets?

Shannon: You could have 10. You could have 10.

Josh: That’d be…

Shannon: You could easily do that. You might wanna die later in the day, but you still did it. Alright. This is very, I’ve had, well this is outside of the podcast, but my boyfriend said nine dozen, which I think is just…

Josh: Yeah, that sounds like a…

Shannon: But again, just a liar.

Josh: If your life depended on it, I think we’d probably be pretty shocked what we could…

Shannon: I don’t even think he was thinking in that concept. I think he was… Wow. But I don’t wanna challenge him on it, but I don’t wanna kill him. So, you know, it’s a hard task to prove.

Marketing Question: Bad Press vs. No Press

Shannon: Anyway, I’ll give you a marketing question now that we got some fun. Bad press or no press at all. What’s worse?

Josh: Ooh, that is a good question. No press at all or bad… I mean, you know the cliche: any publicity is good publicity. That’s tough. No press at all? That’s really tough.

I honestly though, in today’s day and age, I’d probably lean toward no press. ‘Cause I think where brands are going, shout out to these younger generations, honestly, Gen Z, Gen Alpha, I think that authenticity, transparency and brands that align with their values is just, it’s never been more important in consumer culture than it is now and it’s only going to get more so.

So I think if you have bad press, I think you’re just really gonna get called out on it and it’s just not gonna be good for you.

Shannon: Cancel culture is wild. Yeah, definitely something that people probably have on their mind at all times. I’m thinking about it all the time and I’m not a TV personality. Yeah, I do this podcast and sometimes I curse by accident, but I don’t say anything horrible. But you know, I’m constantly worried that maybe I did say something horrible one time in my life and someone filmed it and now, I know they have permanent blackmail on me and I don’t even know what I said, but you never know.

Cancel culture is terrifying. But, yeah, I think it definitely does at least hold businesses, companies, agencies accountable for their actions, which I think is a good thing. I think they’re just, sometimes it’s taken too far, depending on…

Josh: It’s everyone’s kind of swinging. It just continues to swing back and forth. And I hope it finds kind of a middle ground. ‘Cause you can also see through kind of the fake authenticity, right?

Again, especially with these younger generations. This is fascinating to me. As I work around, I hire, you know, I’ve got a lot of Gen Z employees. I’ve come to really appreciate certain aspects of how they digest information, how they make buying decisions. But Gen Z, Gen Alpha, growing up with the internet can just see right through the fakeness.

So, no offense to our baby boomer grandparents perhaps, but there’s a reason why like a TV ad will come on and they’re gonna often just buy it or kind of get scammed quite a bit. This is new media for them. Younger generations, they’ll just see right through that. So you’ve gotta be authentic. Like the brand has to be authentic or it’s just not gonna work.

Authenticity and Reviews

Shannon: Oh, 100%. I do fall for gimmicks. Sometimes gimmicks get me, and I’m Gen Z. Gen Alpha, they terrify me. I’m sure they’re great, but gimmicks get me. But authenticity, I do value. And my phone’s gonna hear this now and I’m gonna get a bunch of ads for things that are gimmicky, of course.

But I do think authenticity is something that’s super important. It’s also so easy to look things up. You can easily, if you are wondering about a company or a product or something like that, you can just easily look up reviews for it. But do you think there’s a huge problem with that? I hope this gets better one day or there’s some kind of legality around it. But the idea of paid reviews…

Josh: Yeah.

Shannon: …is so popular now that I don’t even know how to weed them out. I don’t know what to look for at this point in time. I can very easily pick out an AI generated review at this point in time, especially if you’re familiar with AI and how it speaks – a normal person does not speak like AI. So you can pick that out. But other than that, that does scare me. ‘Cause I think that I can look up a bunch of things that have good reviews and hate it, and I can give it a bad review, but then there’s 10 good reviews after it because they’re paying people to do that. And that’s a scary concept.

Josh: It’ll be interesting to see how people kind of, I’m already seeing some marketplaces. So in our space, in the agency space, there’s some marketplaces that to get a review, like clutch.co for example, is one that comes to mind. It’s really hard to get a review there. So they will phone call your reference, they’ll phone call your client and have like a telephone interview.

And then so that’s become like a really popular, so I think there’s opportunity there. Where like as reviews kind of lose their clout on certain platforms, like maybe Google and Facebook and Yelp and it’s like, this doesn’t really… like other marketplaces might rise to the top and say, come here. ‘Cause these are… so maybe there’s opportunity for more of those authentic.

Shannon: I would hope that they would do that, especially with products because I think that they actually are trying to combat that with like agency work specifically. That’s really helpful. But I think that for consumer marketing, I would really hope that they would have some kind of facilities in place. I would love a law. I would love a law that said, you can’t do this. You can’t pay people to review. I would. That would be awesome. You don’t always want laws for things, but that’s a good thing. So, but yeah, we’ll see where time takes us. I think if anything it might just get worse, but it’s okay. Probably. That’s being me being pessimistic.

One Final Question

Shannon: Let’s not leave it on pessimistic. I’m gonna ask you one more funny question. We’re running out of time. We’re out of time. Would you rather be stuck on a deserted island with someone that you hate or alone forever?

Josh: Not to end on a pessimistic note…

Shannon: Well, it could be positive. You can be positive.

Josh: You’re right. Probably alone, but I get to be here, right? Like, I’m not on an island in the middle of nowhere.

Shannon: No, you’re on an island. You have to be on an island. You’re stuck on an island in the middle of nowhere. You’re alone. Or with someone you hate.

Josh: Which one would be more entertaining? That’s really tough. I would have to go, I would be on the island with the person I hate, and by the end of our journey, we’re gonna be best friends.

Shannon: See, I have gotten that response before, but the alternative of that is that you kill each other.

Josh: Yeah.

Shannon: And that’s also terrifying. But you know, either way…

Josh: Either way it’s more exciting. Either way, it’s more exciting.

Shannon: You’re right. And if you are the killer than you have sustenance, and that is a horrible way to think about it. Very true. You’re on a deserted island, you, you probably don’t have food. I don’t know.

They did it that that Himalayan rugby team did it, but that they did not kill anyone as far as we know, proven in law. They did not kill anyone. Oh, interesting. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen that movie. It’s really good. You should watch. 

I’ve heard about it. Yeah. They crashed these or something like that, right?

Josh:  Yeah. They had a whole court case around it because a bunch of parents were really happy, really upset that they couldn’t bury their kids ’cause they were eaten. Wow. Very crazy. Shannon: It’s a very interesting documentary. Anyway. I still ended on a very strange note. But anyway, thank you so much for coming on with me today.

Right on. This is very fun and I learned a lot and that’s my favorite part of the podcast. I hope I never stop saying that. I say it every podcast ’cause I learn something every time and it’s great. So thank you. I know this is for our audience to learn, but it’s also for me, everyone has different ways of doing things and I really like learning about them, so thank you so much for providing that information.

Josh: Love it. Thanks Shannon. Thanks for having me on. 

Shannon: Thank you and thank you everyone for listening or watching. Don’t forget to like and subscribe. See more stories like this. Thank you so much for participating.

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