[Fully Managed] John Gumas from Gumas Ep. 96

Welcome and Guest Introduction

Daniela (D): Hello everybody. Welcome to the Fully Managed Podcast. This is the podcast where we discuss marketing and business tips, and we help assist you in your business journeys. I’m your host, Daniela, and I’m Penji’s partnership coordinator. I’m joined here today with a very special guest, John Gumas from Gumas. Hi John, how are you?

John Gumas (JG): Hi Daniela. Nice to be here.

D: It’s so nice to have you today on the podcast. I’m very excited to have this episode with you. Just to get started and break the ice, can you tell us a little bit about yourself—what you do for anybody listening who is not familiar with who you are?

Introducing Gumas and the Challenger Brand Concept

JG: Sure. I am the founder and CEO of a full-service branding and digital marketing firm by the name of Gumas. Surprised by that name, right? We’ve been in business for 40 years. In fact, this is our 41st year in business. What we do for our clients as a full-service branding and digital marketing firm is help them grow their business.

We take them through every step of the way—from understanding who they are, what makes them different, why an audience should care about them, all the way through to helping them grow that business to whatever lengths and heights they want to take it.

D: That’s incredible. I mean, 40 years is a really long time, so you’re obviously someone who’s very well-versed in the industry and understand a lot of the ins and outs of it, right?

JG: Yeah, it’s a pretty interesting industry. It’s fun. It’s a changing industry, and it’s been a fun 40 years. I’m happy to say that the company’s doing better than it ever has. It just continues to grow and do very well.

Working with Challenger Brands

D: That leads to one of my first questions. When I was doing research on you and your company, I was immediately interested because you work specifically with challenger brands. You help smaller brands compete with industry giants, which is such a competitive space to be in. What inspired you to get into this specific field?

JG: What you just described is what every company needs to do, but it’s how they go about doing it. Forty years ago, we set out to… in fact, we invented the term “Challenger Brand Marketing.” That’s a trademark term to us. I wrote the book on it called Challenger Brand Marketing. It’s really about this methodology where if you’re up against a company that has more resources—money, retail stores, a bigger salesforce, more products, or a better-known brand—you’re a challenger brand.

Challenger brands can be any size. Pepsi is a challenger brand to Coke. Avis is a challenger brand to Hertz. What matters is that if someone has more resources, you can’t go head to head. You’ll lose. The whole methodology is about using the resources you have and maximizing them in a very strategic way to grow.

Crafting a Strategy for Challenger Brands

D: Could you break down why challenger brands need different strategies than market leaders, and what those strategies actually look like in a tangible way?

JG: In our world, and I’m sure in yours too, there’s no market that’s not competitive. Every client we’ve ever had is in a competitive space. The issue we see most is that companies think marketing is about where to put their message—Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. We say, timeout. Step back. The most important thing a challenger brand can do is understand who they are, what makes them different, and be able to articulate that.

We have a thorough process to discover what makes them unique—based on market and customer data—not assumptions. Once you have that message that resonates and differentiates, then everything starts to work. But if you’re saying the wrong thing, no matter how much you spend or where you say it, it won’t work.

D: That makes a lot of sense. It’s really about saying the right thing, not just placing it in the right spot.

Changes in the Marketing Landscape Over Time

D: What are the biggest shifts you’ve seen in the industry over the last 40 years, especially when it comes to how smaller brands must adapt?

JG: What’s changed is the delivery vehicles—the way we get the message in front of people. Forty years ago, it was traditional TV, radio, and newspapers. Now, those are becoming obsolete. But what hasn’t changed is how you create a message. Our business is simple—it’s about one person talking to another person. That human connection won’t change.

D: So the core of marketing remains the same. It’s just the channels that evolve.

JG: Exactly. And even those channels adjust over time depending on consumer needs.

Brand Storytelling and Differentiation

D: How can challenger brands craft compelling stories that resonate with consumers in today’s oversaturated market?

JG: It starts with truly understanding what makes you different. Most companies assume they know, but they don’t. They need a structured, unbiased process. You gather data from customers, internal teams, competitors, and ask the right questions. That’s our secret sauce—knowing how to extract the real answer.

Once you’ve done that, now you’re ready to market. You’ll stand out not just for price, but for your uniqueness.

D: I think that makes total sense. From the consumer side, everything feels the same unless there’s a compelling story. Otherwise, you’re just picking the cheaper version.

JG: Right. And when brands don’t establish what makes them unique, they’re forced to compete on price—and that’s a race to the bottom. But if you have a strong brand, you can charge more, build loyalty, and avoid becoming a commodity.

The Informed Consumer

D: Consumers are getting smarter. They’re more aware of when they’re being marketed to, and they demand transparency. Do you think that’s true?

JG: Absolutely. I have a whole chapter in my book titled “The Best Way to Sell is Not to Sell.” If people feel they’re being sold to, they lose trust. So instead of selling, give them something they need to hear. Tell them something they truly want to know. That builds credibility.

Effective Marketing Channels for Challenger Brands

D: With all the options out there—SEO, social media, influencer marketing, email, billboards—what’s the best avenue for challenger brands with limited budgets?

JG: It’s not about the channel. Any channel can work if you’re saying the right thing. Everything must work in harmony. We favor vehicles that can be tracked. Billboards, for example, are harder to track. Ultimately, if your message isn’t resonating, the medium won’t matter.

D: That’s so true. Some people are passionate about email marketing, but it’s not right for every industry.

JG: Exactly. And you have to consider acquisition vs. retention. Email might work better for retaining existing customers. Most companies only focus on acquisition and forget that their competitors are trying to steal their current customers every day.

Rapid-Fire Game Segment

D: I have a quick game prepared for us. You’ll have one minute to answer 20 fun questions. Just say the first thing that comes to mind, even if it’s not true. Ready?

JG: Let’s do it.

D: 3, 2, 1. Coffee or tea?

JG: Coffee.
D: Early bird or night owl?
JG: Early.
D: Favorite social media platform?
JG: Facebook.
D: Go-to karaoke song?
JG: Billy Idol, “White Wedding.”
D: Books or podcasts?
JG: Podcasts.
D: One word that describes you?
JG: Honest.
D: Dream vacation destination?
JG: London.
D: Most-used app on your phone?
JG: Mail.
D: Favorite emoji?
JG: Happy face.
D: Hidden talent?
JG: Bad singer.
D: Comfort food?
JG: Hamburger.
D: Superpower you’d want for a day?
JG: Superman.
D: Who inspires you the most?
JG: My wife.
D: Guilty pleasure?
JG: Ice cream.
D: If you weren’t doing this, what would you be doing?
JG: Helping people.
D: Biggest pet peeve?
JG: Darn. No time!

D: You did so well! You got through 17 questions. That’s the highest score yet.

JG: Oh, that’s good. I feel good about that.

D: You’re the top dog for now. John, it’s been great having you on the podcast today.

Closing Remarks and Contact Info

D: Before we go, if anything resonated with someone listening and they want to learn more about Challenger Brand Marketing or get in touch with you, what’s the best place to reach you?

JG: Our website is gumas.com. My email is [email protected].

D: Awesome. I’ll include the links in the show notes. Everyone else, I’ll see you in the next episode. John, thank you so much for coming today.

JG: Thanks, Daniela. That was fun.

D: So fun having you!

https://gumas.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-gumas-08046/