[Fully Managed] Janice Becker from Media Rebel – Ep. 115

Introduction

Shannon: Alrighty. Hello everyone, and welcome to the Fully Managed Podcast, the podcast where we discuss marketing and business tips to help assist you on your business journey. I’m your host Shannon, Penji’s partnership coordinator, and I’m joined here today with a very special guest, Janice Becker from Media Rebel.

Janice: Thank you so much for joining me today. I appreciate being here with you today.

Discussing Podcasting in the Agency World

Shannon: I appreciate that, and it’s also wonderful to have a fellow podcaster on the podcast. This doesn’t happen that often. I mean, agencies are getting a lot more into podcasting, I’ve noticed recently, but it’s still kind of relatively new. So it is really cool. And yours is not only agency-related, correct? As far as I’ve seen.

Janice: We’re all about empowering women, so we have that niche of just inviting other women on that are either entrepreneurs or professionals. Kind of your day-to-day stuff, conversations of like, how are we surviving sometimes with just lip gloss and a lot of caffeine. We’re surviving nonetheless, so hopefully it’s inspirational for other women.

Shannon: I think that’s so wonderful. One of my favorite people to have on the show is women because I do see that the agency space specifically, which is the people that I talk to the most, is definitely being more women-centered. And it makes me really happy to see, because I think that previously, agencies are such a different environment than a traditional corporate environment, and it’s so nice to see women not only start their own agencies, start their own businesses more, but I think that it’s such a better world because the corporate world has been so tainted for so long and I sometimes don’t see it getting better. But agency life just makes me happier. I feel like it’s more manageable for people, especially like yourself. I’m assuming, like being a single mother, it must be very busy and to kind of make your own workload when you can do it must be a lot easier and manageable.

Women in Agency Leadership

Janice: I’m really glad that you mentioned about women and agencies because I think the last time I saw a statistic on it, only 20% of digital agencies are actually owned by women. So to be a woman-owned and run agency is a really big deal for Media Rebel. And definitely as a single mom, I have multiple children, so I have three in high school right now and I have one in elementary school. So I am constantly running. I was just venting about it this morning. I was like, oh my goodness. It was like I had to run to this doctor’s appointment for this kid, come back here, do something else, leave again, come back again. But at the same time, when you’re a business owner, you’re always working, so the downside to that is sometimes you don’t know when to unplug. So I’ll go home and I’ll be like, oh, wait, I still had this thing to do. I forgot, and I’ll be working until nine or 10 o’clock at night.

Remote Work and Work-Life Balance

Shannon: Remote work has definitely added to, I think like if you’re already so work-centered and you can’t, you don’t know when to stop when you’re remote, it’s that much worse because you don’t have the separation between life and work because you can always be working. I think that balance is so important.

Janice: It is, it’s very difficult. I do like talking about it because I think that it’s not talked about enough. Something that I really admire about the agency world is that I think there’s so many things that are spoken about that weren’t previously in a more corporate environment. And so I do like that people are having more conversations like this of like easier workload or being more understanding of days off or when you’re doing your work, like when people work best. Because some people work best in the middle of the night. Some people work best during normal work hours. And just being able to manage it yourself is really difficult if you have that opportunity to work always. Like it’s never done.

Shannon: That’s something that is really important here to us was, you know, I want everybody to work to what suits them the best, but also, client work is important and essentially it needs to get done. But we’ve been able to maintain a pretty good balance with the team members. Some are fully hybrid, or I mean fully remote. Some are hybrid. I prefer the office environment because I think for some people, when you come to an office, you are able to know that when you leave, you’re done with your work for the day. Because when you work from home, it’s kinda like, oh, okay, well now I can just work until it’s all done. And then you’re overworked and tired. So work-life balance is such an important thing, but also realizing that I think the Monday through Friday, kind of nine to five is an outdated tactic and a lot of smaller businesses and entrepreneurs like myself are realizing that nine to five doesn’t work for everybody, so it’s whatever works best for you as long as the work gets done here.

Shannon: I really appreciate that. And I think that should be more generally accepted as an entire culture. I think that would improve productivity so much, like, as long as people are meeting deadlines, which is probably the most important thing about that process, unless it’s unrealistic of the deadline, which I’m assuming would be realistically set in the beginning. I think meeting people where they’re at is super important because this expectation of a one size fits all for anything honestly like school, I think should be altered as well, but work environments are not sustainable for most people. I think when they’re this like cookie cutter approach that works best for everyone. I don’t know if there’s any studies on the nine to five. There should be more.

Janice: I mean, I hear a lot of people I know over in Europe, they’ve implemented for a while now the Monday through Thursday, which is something that we do here for everybody but me. I still work Friday. I just can’t not do it. I’ve tried. I mean, I stop at like 11, but I always have something to do.

Shannon: How are you maintaining your work-life balance?

Janice: I’m not. I am fully transparent. I mean, you will find that I am not like your average person.

Media Rebel’s Approach to Marketing

Shannon: Well, speaking of media rebels, so you guys do advertise yourselves as rebels so to speak. Is there an example of maybe a campaign where you did something kind of out of the box or risky that worked really well?

Janice: That’s a great question. I always feel like that’s everything we do here is out of the box and risky. It’s kind of even hard to pinpoint like an exact thing because I feel like we just depend on the individual client and we’ll just say randomly, like, “Hey, well have you ever tried this before?” And they’ll be like, “We never even thought about that.” And it could be something as simple as text message marketing that they just didn’t ever think to try for their business. Like specifically reaching millennials. And it was for an education program. So why wouldn’t you wanna implement text message marketing? But again, don’t be spammy about it. It’s all about how you articulate your words and your creativity.

Shannon: I definitely think so. I think that a lot of people, they create their own businesses and they’re in their own head about what works because they’ve seen what works in their experience, but they don’t really look at what could work better a lot of the time. And of course, they’re probably looking into you because they wanna see what works better, but at the same time, I think it’s very difficult for business owners specifically to trust that their business will be taken care of by someone else. And it’s not a huge risk doing so, and I think coming to an agency is like the first big step for them to be able to instill trust. But a lot of agencies… I don’t know if I talk to them specifically ’cause no one tells me the bad stuff. But I do think that a lot of people do get burned by agencies often, and I hear about it all the time. Or just from people that have been on the podcast of someone came to me having experienced bad experiences with other agencies and came to me for that reason. And I think that’s super interesting, trusting your entire, especially small businesses. A lot of it depends on a campaign. Sometimes, their productivity and their income.

Building Trust and Avoiding Industry Pitfalls

Janice: Well, you know, it’s one of the reasons I started Media Rebel is that I was working directly with an agency and I had indirectly worked with many other agencies as a kind of a white-labeled third party assisting them. And from those experiences, I did see a lot of deceptive practices that I really have spoken out about when I launched it. I’m sure I’ve made a few people mad about it, but it’s just not okay at the end of the day to do those things and to then set this really bad reputation around all agencies because of one bad one. Because anything in life, you’re gonna encounter somebody, you’re gonna have a bad experience, whether it’s with a business or specific person or even a gender, right? It doesn’t mean that they’re all that way. For a smaller agency like ourselves, it’s our livelihood is their success. So it’s so personally intertwined for us that they are successful at the end of the day.

Shannon: I definitely think that an agency, if it’s working well, should be an extension of the business. Like we are a part of your business. We’re not just doing this work, or we’re not just like a contractor kind of relationship. It’s like, no, this is, we care about the successes of this just as much as you do. And I think that people can really see that. It really shows throughout a campaign and it’s not just the end result. I think that people can have bad experiences and still like the outcome, like whether they don’t like working with you or whatever it may be. So I think that all of that process is really important.

Janice: Absolutely. I’ve seen people just get really taken advantage of with like agencies that charge an hourly rate, for instance. And you know, you have a client going, why is it taking so many hours? And at the tail end of that is you can’t always prove that they spent those hours working on it. So they didn’t know they were being taken advantage of, but then they were happy with the work. So they were just like, “Oh, okay, well, we’ll stay here.” Or they stay out of comfortability even though it isn’t the best fit for them.

Shannon: And that’s probably one of the most recent and also prominent ones that we see reoccurring are these businesses who are like, “Well, I’ve had this guy working here for 10 years and we don’t really like that he does this or we don’t really like that he speaks to us like this, but we’ve worked with him for 10 years. That’s good work.”

Janice: So relationship marketing is extremely important and we agree with that and honor that, but not when it’s detrimental to your business. So you have to know when to step away and then reexamine other agencies that could better serve that business.

Building Client Trust Through Data and Communication

Shannon: I completely agree. What kind of things do you guys do specifically that you think instills trust in your clients? Like maybe immediately or throughout the process?

Janice: So we always start with a digital audit and that is just an all-encompassing approach to that brand from their brand identity to what they’re doing in their marketing. And it could sometimes be as simple as like, do they actually truly have web ownership? ‘Cause a lot of businesses don’t realize that they have a website, but they don’t actually own it, so they can’t take it with them. And that creates a whole other issue for them. But I would say that’s definitely at the forefront of making sure we do this audit and we’re honest with if this is working or if this isn’t working, and then we have the data to back that up. So it’s never just our personal opinion, but we’re using facts to do so.

For example, we had a law firm and they were one of those people who had somebody for like 20 years and they had this really bad social media presence. They didn’t have a LinkedIn presence at all. And we use the American Bar Association data to back up the fact that you should have a LinkedIn and how well that works for law firms.

Shannon: I think that’s great. I think that when people can see the data, they are more likely to believe that you can alter that or change it because they see that you have an entire picture of it. Whereas they might not even know some of those things because it’s just, they’re coming to you because they don’t know enough about something or they don’t wanna do it themselves. So to be able to have like that eye-opening experience of, here is what it looks like right now, here is what it could be.

Janice: Exactly. We never wanna go off just our personal opinions, and while we have a lot of experience, we do firmly believe in always having some sort of data to back up what our approach is to any situation.

Managing Client Communication and Projects

Shannon: How do you make clients feel cared about throughout the process? So like, you set a goal, maybe in the beginning, tell ’em about it, and maybe set a deadline. How do you make sure that they feel properly communicated with, that you’re doing your work throughout the process and that you’re not doing that thing that you mentioned earlier like “we’re not actually doing work in this time and we’re gonna extend your deadline in two months,” or whatever it may be.

Janice: So we believe in keeping communication very open and thorough, and we use a workflow so that our clients have access to where we are every step of the way in that approval process. And then we set really strict timelines, not just for them, but for ourselves. I mean, this is really a partnership and I think that’s the thing that’s really important. It’s like, this is only going to work if you work with us. So while those time constraints are there, it’s just for a reason. We are very different here in how we bill, so we’re project-based. So we don’t have to worry about, “Oh no, we’re over our hours,” or whatever. That’s something that we take upon ourselves to do and make sure we’re going efficiently.

Shannon: How then, do you make sure that your team isn’t overloaded if, say, a project is more extensive than you expected when you signed on?

Janice: Well, we’re great here as a team, so if that ever happens, there’s always somebody here to jump on in and help another person. But we’ve been pretty lucky in knowing what to expect from the business owners that we’ve worked with. We’re just, I think, really open on, “Okay, here’s what we can expect and here’s our timelines, here’s our meeting dates,” and having all of that pre-planned ahead of time so that we’re holding them accountable as well as ourselves.

Shannon: Has there ever been any circumstance where the plan didn’t go according to plan? If that makes sense? Like everything was laid out really well, and it seemed like it would be done by a certain time, but it just didn’t end up being done by that certain time.

Janice: You know, I feel like almost every project has that. So we try to take that into consideration ahead of time just knowing that this happens. But yes, we have had that. We were in the process of doing SEO for a website and then the executives came to the person we were working with, the decision maker we were working with, and said, “You know, scratch that, we’re just gonna do a whole new website.” So it was like we had already done all this work and now we have to wait for a new website to get done and go from there. But it happens and you just roll with it.

Shannon: What kind of fail-safes do you implement when that, or in anticipation for that kind of thing happening?

Janice: I mean, it’s just a case by case basis. So for that, we just reevaluated the time and just pushed the project back, so nothing happens at that point.

Shannon: That’s not that big of a deal. I can imagine a website having to wait for that is really stressful.

Janice: Yeah, but we’re not the agency building it ’cause we do web and app development as well, and we always try to encourage them, of course, to use us just because it’s more seamless when you work with the same person who’s already doing everything else for you. But that doesn’t always happen that way.

But in this instance, we were really pushing that because our web developer wasn’t going to integrate analytics into the website, and so that just causes more work for the client. That’s more money for the client. But that’s what happens sometimes when you’re working with a company that has that certain hierarchy of, “Okay, executive leadership does this and you don’t have access to them.”

Shannon: It’s very difficult when there’s not fostered communication between different departments with the people that you work with. It’s definitely very difficult to manage when things like that happen.

Janice: Absolutely. That’s why we always try to push that communication with all levels of leadership. But like I said, bigger corporations are the ones that are the most difficult to really get everybody in one room to sit down and talk about it. And it’s also different when what you do day in and day out is completely different from what they’re doing for them to really understand why it’s necessary, because they’re looking at how their time could be valuable somewhere else.

Shannon: It’s difficult because they probably nitpick a lot more too or are impatient when things should take a normal amount of time. But yeah, I definitely can see that would actually make more time in the project because they didn’t just listen in the first place, but people just have to learn.

Handling Client Disagreements

Shannon: That actually brings up a great question: if you believe that objectively a client is wrong or they have a bad idea of what will work out and are recommending that to you, how do you kind of break that to someone? Or do you just say, “Hey, we’ll do that, but I don’t necessarily agree.”

Janice: So I always say, I worked with an agency that was a “yes agency,” and even if they didn’t think it was the right thing, they would do it. Again, that’s where we really embody the Media Rebel name. We speak up and we say, “Look, it’s our expert opinion based upon X, Y, Z, that we should be proceeding this way. But if you wanna continue that, we’re more than happy to try it. When you learn that it isn’t going to work or it doesn’t work, then we’re here to pick up the pieces and do it the way that we had suggested in the first place.” But we always try to come – and I think we do a pretty good job of, again, going to the communication and just being on the same page with the client and working together on how we’re gonna get it done.

Shannon: I think that it is important to meet a client where they’re at. It could be that maybe they have opinions that maybe aren’t backed up by facts, or they think that something is gonna work out. But sometimes I think that they do know their industries and it’s difficult, even if it seems like something that might work out, it could. And then as long as you are doing everything in your power to make good work, regardless of whether you agree with what the outcome might be, I think they’re happy to do that, especially if you preface that, “Hey, I don’t know about this.”

Janice: Well, you know, it’s something I like to always tell them is “You absolutely know your industry better than I do, but I also know mine better than you do.” So sometimes what they’re talking about is really more on a marketing level and not so much on the industry level, like their way of thinking. So I think that that has helped kind of change some of the more stubborn people on, “Hey, I wanna just do things my way.”

Shannon: It’s definitely a difference between knowing your industry and knowing how to market your industry. I think a lot of people don’t realize that. I think people focus on what has worked in the past. But that definitely takes away from what could work in the future better than what has worked in the past. And that’s obviously why they’re looking for this type of help, because that’s what they need. So it’s just important that they acknowledge that. But it’s hard to get them to sometimes, even if they’re coming to you.

Janice: Yeah, it’s funny how people will do that. It’s like, okay, you reach out to the experts, but you don’t wanna listen to the experts. It’s like, I’m looking for help, but not the kind of help that you’re telling me I need.

Learning from Unexpected Campaign Challenges

Shannon: Has there been any time where you felt like you really learned something from a campaign that maybe wasn’t something that you expected throughout a process?

Janice: I would say any time that we’ve had a co-op involved. So HVAC industry is really big for that, and we’ve had a lot of HVAC clients. They’re just – you have to be more careful about abiding by that. And there was something that the distributor wanted to use and I thought that they had the go-ahead and then legal got involved from the co-op and was like, “You can’t do that.” So it was like you had to scratch it, restart, redo that whole creative that you thought that you could do. But always get legal involved at the beginning if you can, and not the middle and the end to save yourself heartache, even if your client is very certain that it’s okay to do it. Always check with legal.

Shannon: That makes a lot of sense. I think that must be a tricky industry to work with. I talked to someone the other day who works in the medical field, or works with an agency that works with the medical field. And there’s so many legal implications around making a website for any kind of doctor’s office even. ‘Cause they have to be HIPAA compliant and they have to have all these different incorporations that you wouldn’t think you’d have to. It’s just something that’s not on the forefront of your mind if you don’t specialize in it. So I completely understand.

Janice: There’s definitely a lot of legal jargon involved with the medical field that we have also encountered. I mean, it’s funny that it reminds you of like the pharmacy commercials with pharmaceutical commercials always have the really long list of possible side effects that may have affected one out of 500 people. But they have to tell you. It’s kind of the same thing when you’re doing anything for them. So like always leave room to put the little stuff at the bottom of “here’s all our legal.”

Shannon: It’s definitely just that long list that you have to abide by and do everything that’s check all these boxes. I cannot imagine anything that involves that. I do not touch, so I commend you.

Podcasting Challenges and Insights

Shannon: For the last part, because you also do a podcast, I’d love to pick your brain about your podcast. Number one, what do you think the biggest pain is for when conducting a podcast like the most difficult time that you’ve had for it?

Janice: Oh man, for me it’s been audio. So we got these really nice mics that came with their own mixers and those mixers didn’t work out. And you grab another one and then now you need more cords. And it’s just kind of like a whole thing that you don’t realize. And I think because we co-host, so there’s two hosts and then we always have a guest. It’s easier when you have two mics involved, but when you start getting into three or four mics, that’s where you get a little bit messier with making sure your audio is clear for everybody.

Shannon: That makes complete sense. I don’t know how I’d manage an in-person podcast. I’m so happy that we’re – it would be very nice to meet people in person. I think that’s like the one thing that I would really value. But again, not technologically savvy. My mic is in a pen cup. I don’t even have a stand. So it works and that’s what matters.

Janice: We have done in person. We’re gonna be doing video conferencing as well. But I mean, we have to do that. We wanna be able to share enough knowledge with a lot of women and all these different industries that are involved. And so we understood when we started that there would be limitations with having people in person, but I feel like the energy is so much different.

It’s really like we want people to truly feel like they’re coming in and sitting down and just drinking a cup of coffee or a glass of wine with us and shooting the breeze over how they got to where they are and how did they get through the day to day, and what was your biggest challenge today? And just kind of the gripes and stuff like that. So other women know that they’re not alone. Like you have somebody that can relate to what you’re going through.

Transparency and Authenticity in Professional Life

Shannon: That is so lovely to hear. I think that’s why I so much encourage people being transparent on this podcast about their difficulties, which I think is probably the thing I ask about the most, which maybe is negative, but I think that people don’t – it bothers me that people don’t share about that enough, like publicly, because I think that everyone wants to have this aura about them, that they’re doing fine and they’re doing great and that everything works out perfectly, especially business owners because they don’t want you to see that they’ve been struggling. But I think that’s like the most important thing to share because you’re then a person.

Janice: Exactly. We live in the world of social media. So like some brilliant person had said, “You don’t know my life from my social media.” And I think because we’ve been so ingrained to be that way, we think that we have to be that way everywhere. It’s okay to say that I’m a human and there are days that I fail at doing this or that, but without those failures and without those struggles, I wouldn’t overcome, I wouldn’t be stronger. I wouldn’t be more intelligent. I wouldn’t have the wisdom that I have today if I didn’t have some sort of struggle, and it’s okay.

If you have to take a minute and close the door and scream and cry and get it out and then come back feeling even better because as women, we’re so resilient. We can be just so down and then we’ll get back up and we’re stronger when we’re coming back even harder than we were before. So it’s fine. It’s normal.

Shannon: There’s so many things that women have to go through that aren’t accounted for, and they’re doing great.

Janice: Absolutely. I mean, I try to tell my children that. I have four boys and a girl, so there’s a lot more testosterone boys in my house, but I always try to inspire my kids with, you know, I was a teenage mom and I worked three jobs and my child also had autism, so I had a lot against me that I overcame. I put myself through college and I ended up having a successful career while raising kids on my own and then launching my own business. So hopefully I’m an inspiration to others that it doesn’t matter what your situation is or how low you may feel, you can overcome it.

Shannon: I love hearing more stories like that and I hope that people in the future are more transparent and comfortable. I think that LinkedIn weirdly has created this trend of people maybe oversharing, but I kind of do like it because I think that having such a professional social media rubbed me the wrong way in the beginning. I was like, this is very silly. It makes me uncomfortable. And the fact that we have to do it because that is how you network just makes me almost angry because it’s why I don’t want to even go on my phone and now I have to network through a professional platform.

But I do see more people being more candid on LinkedIn, whether that’s for views or whatever it may be. I don’t care. I just do like to see that because even if it’s something that I wouldn’t share on a professional platform, I’m happy to see it because it’s interesting and LinkedIn can be rather boring. But it’s also transparent and I just really appreciate knowing that people are human beings and I think that that should be showcased more in a professional environment because then people are more accepting that you are just a person in the professional world and you’re gonna make mistakes and you’re not always going to be on the ball, and that’s okay. That doesn’t mean you’re a bad worker or you’re bad at what you do. I want that to be something that’s understood more in the professional environment.

Janice: Yes. I think we’re definitely breaking down the walls when it comes to the professional world and how they’ve been just so very firm and had kind of this stick up their butt mentality. And it’s about being relatable at the end of the day. Like, you don’t wanna network with somebody that you can’t relate to. And LinkedIn is a professional social network. Again, that word is in there – social, meaning that you’re gonna be a little bit more out there, a little bit more personable, sharing those stories with people. But again, knowing that you have to have the boundary of that professional line. So I think we’re seeing that right now, especially that they’ve integrated videos into the platform and really watching people kind of showcasing that we’re right on the line there. It’s just such a fine line, but at the same time, if you do it right, it has really great rewards.

Authenticity in Professional Branding

Shannon: I definitely agree. I think that it does help you get to know a brand that you’re gonna work with, especially if like the CEO is on LinkedIn talking about their life and who they are. I think that that is something that can harbor trust in your agency or your business or whatever it may be. And I think that is really valuable because if someone feels like they know you – and people do that with social media marketing all the time – if someone feels like they know you, they feel like they know your brand and your values and they’re more likely to trust you and use your service or your business or your product. And I think being transparent and being who you are authentically is the best way of bringing people in, especially ideal people in like people that like you are gonna be a better client too.

Janice: Culture’s really important and it’s, I think, not just for us, but for everybody. You wanna be able to connect with a business where you feel like has a relatable culture to your own. Or else, you may not wanna do business with them.

That’s another thing I feel like we’ve tackled too with our podcast. The episode actually just went up this week was about appearance and professionally where it’s evolved with tattoos and piercings and wild hair color, whereas before that was considered taboo. It was unprofessional to look that way, but all because your appearance doesn’t align up with what the world says it should be, doesn’t mean that you’re not a very intelligent, professional badass.

Shannon: I completely agree. I always think of my parents telling me when I’m older, like, if I get tattoos on my forearms, I’m gonna have to wear like a brace because they’ve seen servers do that when they were younger. And I was like, this is not that world anymore, happily. I mean like maybe certain professional environments I guess are still probably stick in the muds kind of so to speak. But I really think that’s evolving and I love to see it.

Janice: I mean, inclusivity is really important and it’s definitely come a really long way from what it was. And that’s something that we joke about. It’s like, I remember in the nineties when it was like cool to get the barbed wire tattoos on the biceps. And now it’s like normal to see a guy with a whole sleeve. But I think it’s great that we are now in a culture of looking beyond just the surface of people to see that inside is what really matters and who they are as a person is what’s important.

Conclusion

Shannon: I do really love it. I agree. And I think that is a really wholesome note to end on. ‘Cause we are a little over time. But I do really think that – I hope that that resonates with our audience because I do think that’s something that I really value and I’m happy that you value it too because I just think that people should be more authentic. Unless they’re a horrible person, maybe hide that then.

But I think that if you feel comfortable being yourself, maybe there’s things that you shouldn’t share online, but if you feel comfortable doing it, then do it. I don’t care. I’m not here to police anyone. But I really appreciate you joining me today. This is absolutely lovely and I learned a lot and I got to have a wholesome chat, so I really do appreciate it.

Janice: Awesome. Thank you Shannon. I appreciate you as well and I hope you continue to recover well from your wisdom teeth ’cause I know it’s not a fun process. I’ve been there.

Shannon: Thank you. Yes, it is something else. My jaw really hurts.

Janice: I would have never known otherwise, so you’re doing a great job.

Shannon: Thank you. My face is puffier than usual, but you didn’t see me before this, so it’s good.

Janice: You’re so cute. Don’t worry about it.

Shannon: But thank you. Thank you so much. This was absolutely lovely. I appreciate you joining me. We’ll stay in touch and thank you everyone for listening or watching. Please don’t forget to check out all of our episodes to learn like I get to do in every podcast. My favorite part. Thank you so much and have a lovely day. Bye.

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