[Fully Managed] Annie Wood of Tellwell Story Co

Shannon (Host): Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Fully Managed Podcast, the podcast where we discuss marketing and business tips to help assist you on your business journey. I’m your host, Shannon, Penji’s Partnership Coordinator, and I’m joined here today with a very special guest, Annie Wood from Tellwell. Thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it.

Annie Wood: It’s so great to be with you, Shannon. Thanks so much for the invite. Really excited for our conversation today.

Shannon: Thank you.

Annie’s Background and Journey to Tellwell

Shannon: So, could you start by telling us a little bit about yourself, maybe introduce yourself differently than I would, if you’d like, and talk about your professional journey, what led you to this point, anything you think would be relevant, all the bits and pieces in between, and what you’re doing today.

Annie Wood: Yeah, so the short version of how I got to Tellwell is kind of a fun one. Maybe this won’t be the shortest version ever, but here’s my story. I was graduating high school many years ago and kind of wanted to take a gap year, but my mom threw a fit. And so I was like, cool, I guess I’ll go to college. But I went to college with no major and no plan. And so for me, I really did a lot of exploring while I was in my first couple of years of college. I got really involved on campus and ended up deciding to major in public relations with a minor in art and advertising. I always really loved that you have communication and connection and also making things look good.

Then I ended up actually spending a good chunk of my career working in higher education. I worked with student activities and student unions or college campus student centers for many years and really honed a lot of those people skills, learning a lot about leadership development, just how to work with people, how to engage across. When you have a lot of committees you get to serve on, you get the opportunity to try and figure out how do we work together? What does that look like?

I spent a little bit of time in the nonprofit world as well, and then ended up making my way to Tellwell to be the chief of staff because I’ve known Max, who’s one of the founders of Tellwell for many, many years. Tellwell actually started using the coworking space I was running for a bit. And so that’s how I first got to know Max. And so over those ten years, we’d really kept in touch. We did a podcast club together where we would listen to a podcast and talk about it. We would pass notes back and forth about great books we were reading, call upon each other when we were going through something and needed a listening pair of ears.

And so about a year and a half ago, Mac said, hey, as I’m thinking about Tellwell and kind of what are the next five to ten years look like, I know I really want someone on my team who can focus on making sure that our people are taken care of, that we’re really encouraging people to learn and to grow and kind of creating pathways within their careers at Tellwell rather than people thinking in order to move up or to continue toward mastery, they have to move on from Tellwell. How do we really create Tellwell as a place where people can learn, people can grow, and people want to stay?

And so that got me really excited to join the team at Tellwell. So we get to play a role in some of our bigger strategy of, what types of clients do we serve? Where is our expertise? And then really coaching and helping support our teammates in where are the places that they are looking to grow and to develop mastery, not only in their craft, but also in the ways that they present to clients or the ways that they think about not just the creative part of the work, but the strategic part of the work too. And so I’ve been with Tellwell here for the last year and a half, but in my heart, many more years, just through that connection with Max and many folks on the team.

Agency Culture and Employee Care

Shannon: Oh that’s incredible and that’s so unbelievably wholesome to hear. I think that I do hear maybe an upward trend for agencies of caring more about longevity for their staff and like so that involves obviously caring about them individually. And I love hearing that because I think that probably earlier on when agencies were becoming a bigger thing I think that a lot of them are modeling themselves off of corporate structures which are the worst, in my opinion. And so it’s really lovely to hear that. I’m happy that you’re able to be that role and having experience in the nonprofit sector and having experience with students. I think that that is such a great experience to come from, especially nonprofit. I don’t know exactly what kind of thing that you did in the nonprofit world, but I definitely understand experience of like, working with vulnerable individuals it’s very I think it’s a very easy translation to just being more patient with people and like meeting them where they’re at so I completely understand that and that’s an incredible journey to have had.

Annie Wood: Yeah, it’s really fun. I actually, in the nonprofit world, worked with a lot of entrepreneurs. And so a lot of people who are in that really creative space, it’s a little squishy, though, where they’re trying to do something a little undefined or they’re experimenting with stuff. And so it has been really a good setup for getting into a creative space where people are trying things and thinking about things. And it’s been really fun to see how people’s brains work in different applications of trying something new or doing something they’ve never done before.

Shannon: Yeah, that’s really cool. And I think that’s even probably even better experience, so to speak, for that kind of role that you’re in today.

Strategies for Employee Growth and Development

Shannon: So what kind of strategies have you implemented since starting that you think have improved this dynamic in which you’re trying to work on?

Annie Wood: Yeah, so one of the things that I mentioned in the intro was that Tellwell cares a lot about making sure that people have the opportunity to grow and to level up their skills within our organization rather than thinking about needing to leave in order to have career growth. And so I get a chance to meet with every single one of our teammates every month and really talk to them about what projects are they working on that are giving them a lot of energy? What are the types of things that they are trying or experimenting with as they hopefully stay really curious about their craft and different technologies and applications and all of those types of things.

And so those types of conversations are really fun for me. And I think also really bring those to the forefront for the folks on our team as well, because if someone is encouraging your career growth is asking you what are you hoping for what are you looking for what’s interesting how do you want to invest this time that we’ve set aside for you to continue mastering your skills I think it helps it not just be something that happens but it’s something a lot more planful.

The Trail Map Concept

Annie Wood: And at Tellwell you can see this mountain behind me or this tree mountain you can’t see the whole mural in our office but we really love this idea that stories are often really best told around the campfire right in this community those gathering spaces and so we use a lot of kind of mountain hiking imagery which is maybe hilarious because we’re located in the very flat plains of North Dakota here. But we, a lot of us love the outdoors. And so we kind of use this concept that we call a trail map. And so that’s how we think about people’s growth plans.

And so those often incorporate some formal learning. So maybe that’s taking a masterclass or maybe that’s getting a certification or those types of things that aren’t necessarily just a one and done, easy to check off the box. But we really want to help people think about how to stay curious about their craft, about how to work well together, about those other skills that they need to be successful. And so those trail maps really help us customize each person’s growth at Tellwell and not just have a one size fits all. Well, you have to do this one thing or this, take this class or do that in order to move up, but it’s really intended to be customized.

So for example, we have a person on our in-house video team and he really loves post-production. He’s great at shooting and all of those things too, but he said, the place I really want to grow is in post-production. There’s some things that get me really excited. And so we worked with him on a plan where he actually did a Premiere Pro certification and has done a handful of other things in order to move into our lead editor role. And so it’s really fun to see people when they are curious. In any type of schooling, if you have to take a class to take a class, people aren’t really into it. But when it’s something that is that kind of marriage between your interests and a place you can see applying that new knowledge, it’s so cool to see people light up with that type of opportunity.

Benefits of Passionate Growth

Shannon: Yeah no I one hundred percent agree with that mentality in the workspace and also just life in general. I think my favorite thing is to hear someone talk about what they’re passionate about which is why this podcast is so fun. But I think that’s incredible that you’re able to foster growth within your agency because I think that one that kind of creates this dynamic of a loyal employee, which is what people obviously love to see and have, but it’s not just the incentive of having that kind of like oh they’ll stay with me for longevity reasons or whatever it may be but it’s also that they’re passionate about their growth that your agency will just be better with like having them not only be constantly wanting to gain more knowledge and improved on their craft but they’re also enjoying it in the process which I think really shows in creative spaces specifically too in the idea that someone’s enjoying what they’re doing, I think that really comes out in someone’s work. And I think that when people are stressed out and unhappy, I think that it really does show and clients do notice it in the idea that it’s just not what they’re looking for. And it’s just nice to hear that you’re taking it from that perspective rather than just pushing employees to do more or do things that aren’t privy for their personal growth and what they actually enjoy doing.

Annie Wood: Yeah, I’m a big believer in the fact that if you have people who enjoy the clients they get to work with and the work they get to work on, and hopefully we also have set them up to enjoy the people they work with, that shows through in how their creativity and they can take the right kinds of risks with pushing designs or trying new techniques. And so when they have that sustainable path for growth about sustainable kind of push toward continuous improvement, that it’s not improvement for the sake of improvement, but that they are feeling like they’re mastering something and that they have people who are cheering them on, people who have their backs, people who will challenge them in the right ways.

And so it’s really fun to see that the time that we invest in making sure that our team is not only have a chance to grow in their areas of expertise and develop their craft, but we’re also really designing experiences and learning opportunities together as a whole team, where we’re investing in making sure those relationships also feel good and that people have the opportunity to, I think Brene Brown calls it rumbling, where it’s like, hey, we’re wrestling with something or we’re trying to get something right, or maybe that’s the right strategy for a client’s campaign, or maybe that’s the right approach to a new branding project or maybe it is as we are working with a nonprofit that wants to share a story through video, as we have to kind of push and pull on those ideas, let’s keep the idea at the center. And it’s never about infighting between people. It’s always about the, it’s in service to the story. It’s in service to the client and the people whose stories we’re telling.

And so it’s really fun to see that too, where people as they grow in their capacity to sit in some of those discomforts where you’re like well we don’t necessarily have the right idea yet or it’s not so and so’s idea always wins it’s about that shared creation and that collaboration that those feel like two buzzwords but there’s something that you can build skills and strategies to do those and do them well and that’s something that we’ve also really worked towards so that people don’t feel like one person’s voice is always the loudest.

Team Communication and Collaboration

Shannon: Yeah, no, I think that’s beautiful. And I think fostering communication between teams is really vital in order to have successful campaigns and different avenues like that. I think that this is actually a thing that I find people have trouble with the most is people being in their own worlds of where I’m focused on this. This is my job position and this is what I’m doing. And not considering other parts of the project just because it’s out of their hands, or it’s just not their expertise. But I think that fostering that communication and people kind of identifying different things in areas that might not be their expertise, but is important to learn about to understand like the full process of everything and all the inner workings of the place in which they work is really helpful to not only for accountability reasons, like, oh, if I do this, this person may be affected, so to speak, but also just for the idea of when things go wrong, it’s very easy to, it’s more easy to navigate a situation when you understand all the moving parts of a campaign rather than just your one sector.

Annie Wood: Yeah, absolutely. A hundred percent agree. I definitely think that that’s something that’s really important. So it’s nice that you guys are able to also foster communication amongst everyone while having people improve as well.

Handling Growth Challenges

Shannon: Is there any time where you run into a problem with this strategy so to speak like say someone wants to improve in an area or they’re interested in advancing like their knowledge in something but they find out that they don’t really like it or maybe it’s just not for them what do you kind of do in that situation if that does happen?

Annie Wood: Yeah, it doesn’t happen to like a really severe degree. I think there’s times where people say, hey, I want to experiment with this or explore this. And so we usually kind of in collaboration with the person’s manager, we kind of figure out like, OK, what does that process look like or where are the best resources? And so we approach that not like here’s your twelve step process that you have to start to finish but really thinking about it a little bit at a time because if I set out a plan at the beginning but actually someone gets into something that has a lot of nuance and they say oh this is actually the direction I’d like to go a little more than this I want to veer a little to the left instead of to the right as we try to keep some of those things a bit flexible.

What we really want to do is help keep people’s growth flexible so that it’s meeting them where they’re at. Because sometimes, like you said, someone gets into a topic and the more they really learn about the back end of it or the complexities of it, maybe we realize they need a little bit more training or they maybe need to pursue something alongside that in order to be really effective with it.

So I feel like I talked really vaguely because I wasn’t trying to pinhole one of our teams there. But for example, one of our graphic designers is really excited about illustration. She’s a very talented artist. And so we said, OK, well, let’s identify a couple of projects that are coming up where we could have you do some illustration. We started with an internal project so that she was able to kind of get used to some of the softwares and kind of figure out what was the right process so that you don’t end up spending a million hours creating an illustration.

And so it’s always about that balance between what is something that someone’s interested in and how can we have a real world application for it? Because there’s a lot of like we could go nerdily into my old higher ed background, but there’s a lot of research that shows that when we learn something and we have opportunities to prove it or to showcase it, we work differently at it and our brains process it so differently. We really make sure that when someone is working on a goal or working on developing a skill or even trying to figure out like if they can say hey I’m kind of curious about this thing how can we start them down a path that can get a little more narrow as we go so it’s not always like a wide open field but we start to kind of get them onto a path that they can really apply some of that learning to a project whether that’s an internal project or eventually into client projects too.

Purpose-Driven Goals

Shannon: Yeah, no, I think that having a plan for that is probably extremely helpful, especially that the knowledge in which they’re pursuing is for a purpose rather than just maybe for the pursuit of knowledge, which is also lovely, but probably something that they should be doing outside of work. So I completely understand that. And it makes sense because I think that there’s probably some kind of balancing after having that kind of strategy to support your employees while also making sure that it’s something that’s helpful to that position or helpful to a position in which they’re trying to get to which must be something that probably is monitored lightly enough to make sure that that’s what it is, but also get the room to grow in a way that might not be completely linear, because I’m sure that that might be a little stressful for them to be like, oh, my job is supporting this, but I am not doing it in the way that was optimal or whatever it may be. And that’s just everyone is different person to person. So you did touch on that, I think, earlier, though, of the idea that it’s a very specific path for that person that’s ideal for them, which I think is incredible to be able to factor in all of those different elements that make a person grow that is probably different than another team member.

Annie Wood: Exactly. Yeah. And one of the things that we talk a lot about is we don’t have goals for the sake of goals. We really want those goals to help support something. So too often I see people set goals at work that are on top of everything else they’re already doing. And then those begin to feel overwhelming or they begin to feel like one more task and they lose the magic, they lose the energy that maybe had you dreaming them up in the first place. We really work to situate goals within something else. So like I mentioned, the person who wanted to start doing more illustration was like, okay, that’s a great goal. How do we situate that so it’s worked into other projects that you’re already doing?

Or we had someone who really wanted to pursue a leadership certificate, specifically in creative leadership. And so we talked about, well, how can you bring that learning back to your team and how do you kind of take that goal that you have, but make sure that it’s not just one more thing on top of everything else you’re trying to do? How can you use that what you’re learning and look at some of our processes or use that certificate class that you’re going through and bringing that back to the rest of our senior leadership team to share with them what you’re learning. So it’s been really fun to try and think about how do we make sure that goals are really integrated as well so that they, like I said, are driving towards something, helping support some of those other pieces.

Shannon: Yeah, I love that. I think goals for the sake of goals is troublesome because I also think that kind of follows like the corporate kind of thing that I was talking about earlier and the idea that I think that goals for the sake of goals just lead to burnout inevitably because it’s like, okay, I think people like having purpose in what they do nine out of ten times. And having goals for the sake of goals is not purposeful. There’s not anything behind that that is making them grow. It’s just pushy, I think, in a way. And so I do definitely agree with that mentality.

Leadership Learning and Development

Shannon: Is there anything… Do you have any like other critical maybe learning moments since having this position, since it’s something that is probably like a little new to you other than having like experience and other roles that you think have been helpful in this position? Are there things that you have that you can like specifically think of?

Annie Wood: Yeah, so a couple of things that in the last about year and a half that I’ve been at Tellwell in this role is really thinking about some of the resources that I’ve gained over time through my different roles, through different opportunities and really building kind of my manifesto sounds really like dramatic, but it’s like, what are some of the thought leaders or who are some of the authors or podcasts that I have listened to that have really influenced me and my ways of thinking and how I approach some of the situations that we find ourselves getting to deal with or getting to work through.

And so I pulled those together into some of my favorite leadership learnings and actually built out, we call it Tellwell Leadership, one on one. And so all the folks on our senior leadership team have either listened to those podcasts or kind of gone through some of those books or those like online kind of master class types of things because it really helps all of us get on the same page and so we’ve been able to open that up for people to contribute their favorite learnings as well because I think when we can collectively kind of feel like we’re aligned in how we approach decision making or the types of things that are influencing our thinking it just allows us to have that kind of shared language or a shared foundation so that’s been really fun.

One of the things that we incorporated into our senior leadership team meetings is Cy Wakeman’s Reality-Based Leadership, which is an online course that’s kind of built in small snippets. So they’re like three minute or less videos. And every other week during our meeting, we spend fifteen minutes listening to that together and then having a quick discussion about it. And so that’s been really fun, too, to build learning into some of our meeting times so that it’s not just oh, I’m over here reading this book and I think you should all read it, too. But it’s really about kind of sharing some of the things that we’re learning along the way and trying to not burden everyone with every podcast I’ve ever listened to. But like picking out some of those gems and it’s really helped us then shape some of our senior leadership retreats that we do about twice a year so that we really stay collectively on the same page and we’re pushing ourselves to develop our leadership skills.

So those types of experiences have been really great for me to continue learning and not think that I showed up at Tellwell knowing everything I would need to know about supporting and helping lead a creative agency. And so that’s been really fun too, to push myself because having existed in nonprofit spaces and educational spaces, I was like, there’s a lot I don’t know about the ways that creative folks work and what do we need to do with that? And so it’s been really fun to kind of push myself in those ways too. So Todd Henry has been a great resource that I’ve really loved learning from. He’s got a great podcast and a couple of good books and all of those things too.

The Value of Continuous Learning

Shannon: Yeah, I think it’s a great position to be in, honestly, of there’s so much that I don’t know. I love, I think there’s so much room for growth. And I think that that’s like the most, and it’s very beneficial for an agency or company or anything that’s trying to be prosperous, because I think that when you have that vigor to learn, I think that it’s just so much more I don’t know, you just have the potential to be so much more successful because your team is wanting to grow. So it’s like if you’re expecting these certain metrics to meet for growing your business, if your team is excited and wanting to reach those goals, not only because they want to grow themselves, they also want to grow the business. I think that passion being there is so optimal for that kind of growth. So it’s just lovely to hear that that’s the mentality that you have.

Annie Wood: Yeah, if I thought I knew everything, I would probably, A, be really bored in whatever I was doing, and B, I’d be no fun to be around. Who loves a know-it-all? Not me.

Shannon: No, I definitely agree. I think that’s where, like, I think when you become the all-knowing person, I think that is where you, if you stop learning, then you’re going to stop growing. I think that’s, like, they’re kind of tangibly connected at all times. If you have the mentality that there’s no more to learn, then you should probably be in a different area of expertise. More realistic.

Authentic Storytelling Approach

Shannon: But so segueing a little bit. So storytelling, something that is super important to any agency marketing, whatever it may be. How do you kind of foster that ideal in your team while also ensuring that it’s like purpose driven but also not seeming kind of shammy like you know what I’m saying?

Annie Wood: So here’s what I think you’re asking, which is storytelling is a word that a lot of people use, especially in creative spaces, in agencies, in creative companies. And so something that’s really important to us at Tellwell is that we are really taking real people and telling their real stories. And so for us, that isn’t just creating a story out of nothing to sell a product or to make someone interested. But we are working with nonprofits who we say, who are the people that are being served by your organization? What stories exist already that we can highlight, that we can bring and shine the light on?

And so for us, it really is working with the companies or the organizations and learning about them and getting to know them and getting to know the work they do and the impact that they have so that the stories that we then get to share and get to tell are very authentic. And so for sometimes in a nonprofit space, that means we really need to be careful with how we approach that and make sure that as we tell vulnerable stories, that people feel safe and feel like we’re caring about their story in a deep way.

And that’s where it really is for us about first making the connection not only to the organization or to the nonprofit, but then also to the people whose story we’re telling. So we have a process working with our clients on how we identify those stories as like, who are the potential stories? How do we get a chance to then connect with those people who they’re thinking about? Maybe this would be a story to highlight so that they get a chance to hear from Tellwell and hear about our approach. So they’re opting in with eyes wide open, if you will, to how that would go.

And same with other companies or organizations. We work with a lot of very mission-driven or community-focused organizations as well, even when they’re for-profit, but it’s often that they want to highlight the people within their organization. They want to highlight the organizations and businesses that they serve. So for example, we have a organization we work with out in rural Montana, and it’s actually, it started as a telephone cooperative many years ago, and now they have shifted to providing a lot of IT services and connectivity.

And so what they wanted to do was highlight the people within their organization and talk about the stories of the real humans who are making sure that rural Montana has access to fiber internet. And they wanted to talk about the stories of the real businesses that are able to exist in rural Montana because there can be connected to the world. And so we didn’t manufacture any of those stories. We got to get in and learn from the client about their business and then really help them surface the stories that really resonated or that they were really excited about, or frankly, that not everyone wants to be in a story or share their story, and that’s okay.

And so for us, it’s really about making sure that someone feels good about telling their story and they’re excited about it because that comes through so differently, especially when we do video work. If someone’s really nervous, we have lots of ways we can put them at ease as we go through the process. But if someone feels like their story is just a little too close to the heart to share, we never want to put someone in a position to do that. Yeah, of course. So it all comes down to that idea of real authentic connection with the people whose stories we’re going to tell because we have real true connections with the organizations we’re working with and they have connections within their community very deeply and that it’s real people telling real stories.

Innovative Storytelling Methods

Shannon: No, I think that it’s wonderful to be so considerate of that fact as well, because I think that pushing someone to share a story in which they don’t want to tell is silly and discomforting. I don’t think that one, maybe you might not get a great referral from that person, but also the idea that there’s different modes of storytelling for every kind of business. I think obviously that is a very big buzzword in the agency world and it definitely is kind of an umbrella term I think. Well I guess on that topic do you think that there’s anything that you’re implementing maybe not you specifically but your team in trying to tell a story in a different way or like a new way that maybe hasn’t been done before or something more unique because I know obviously there’s like the very traditional ways of doing that in marketing?

Annie Wood: Yeah, so one of the things that we will often use, the hero’s journey framework is one that we frequently tap into because it really helps center the person whose story is being told and positions any organization as kind of the helpful guide along the way. And so that’s a framework that we often tap into because it really helps us identify who are we talking to? Who is kind of central to the story? How is the organization a good partner to that person? And then what becomes possible when people and that organization come together?

And so I don’t know that that’s like it’s not like anything new that we invented or created right the hero’s journey type framework has existed for millennia you see it in Star Wars you see it in The Lion King right you see the Odyssey so many times. But what we love about it is that it has the flexibility and it has the ability to be really crafted into something that it doesn’t feel like the same story over and over again, right? The story arc looks different because it’s centered on the character. It’s centered on the person whose story is being told.

And so that’s one of the approaches that we use really consistently because it works so well with a lot of the clients that we specialize in supporting, and especially with our nonprofit clients, when often we are doing films that are intended to help them continue to raise funds so they can do the great work that they do. It really helps us paint the picture of the donors or the supporters for that nonprofit organization. It helps humanize the services. It helps bring a face and a story to life that allows people to say, wow, okay, my support of that organization helps make that possible for so-and-so. And it doesn’t just, it takes any numbers and stats. Like we served ten thousand people last year and John was one of them, and tells his story in depth. And so it really helps us to use that, especially with our nonprofit clients, to demonstrate their impact far beyond the numbers. Numbers are a great skeleton and the story gives it heart.

The Power of Emotional Connection

Shannon: Yeah, no, of course. And I think that people who are going to, people are going to resonate more with an organization or a business or whatever it may be, more when there’s that human element of it that’s emotional. And I think that the hero’s journey is definitely a very great framework to utilize in that because if you think about all the stories or even movies that use that framework, they’re incredibly successful like nine out of ten times because of that exact concept. It’s the idea that they have heart and they give you it’s like incentive to care almost because you get invested in this story. And even though it’s not a traditional book or movie or whatever or that kind of media, it still essentially provides that in a short form or just a different mode of media. And I think that that is such an incredible thing to utilize for nonprofits and businesses alike. I think that people do really believe in those kind of businesses. And I think that fosters at least a little bit of trust before they even get to the point of participating.

Annie Wood: A hundred percent. And that’s, like I said earlier, I think it is the word real, real people, real stories. It’s again, we’re not manufacturing a story out of nothing. We’re really taking something that already exists in the world and then kind of giving that shape and life and form to, for the organization to share.

Shannon: Yeah, I think that’s lovely. And I appreciate that you maintain that level of authenticity while also showcasing the strengths of the organizations that you work with. I think it’s definitely even somewhat difficult to always maintain that authenticity, regardless of whether that story is there or not. A lot of people like to fluff things up a little bit make them look a little better but I think that that baseline story is always going to be the heart of everything and I think that people really do see and trust that authenticity and it makes them want to work with someone much more.

Annie Wood: You’re spot on.

Closing Remarks

Shannon: Well, I think this is a beautiful and wholesome note to end on because we are a little bit over time, but I really do appreciate everything that you’ve shared with me today. I think I learned a lot and that is always my ideal when I do the podcast. So I appreciate that. And I know that if I got to learn the audience has as well. And I do just appreciate the values that you, and I’m sure your entire agency holds because it’s just, it seems very altruistic in a way that is really good to see. I don’t know. I appreciate all the sentiments that you shared today.

Annie Wood: Well, thanks so much for having me and giving me space to talk about Tellwell and the way that we approach our work. I love to think that it’s a little unique and it makes us a great partner to so many nonprofits and mission-driven organizations. That’s the work we love to do and will continue to do and hopefully far into the future, farther than Fargo. We work with a lot of folks in our region and love getting the chance to work even further outside the Midwest. We do get to the mountains once in a while for real. And so really fun to be able to share some of the magic that I believe is happening here in Fargo and hopefully get a chance to connect to some of your other folks who are listening if they have curious questions about how Tellwell does our work.

Shannon: I do appreciate that. And I hope that they get to you as well. That would be lovely. And I hope you guys get to go on a mountain retreat sometime.

Annie Wood: We are actually in May. We’re taking our senior team to the WorkHuman live conference. Adam Grant is speaking and so is Cy Wakeman. And we like fangirl really hard over both of those thought leaders and authors. And so we’re actually doing that as part of our senior retreat. So in Denver, getting to the mountains for real.

Shannon: That is so incredible. I’m really happy that you guys are able to do that, especially if it’s incorporated into your foundation. That’s such a full circle kind of thing.

Annie Wood: I know. I was like, I fangirl so hard over those two when I saw they were still at the same conference. I said, Max, we have to go. This has to become our senior retreat. And so I’m really excited. So is the whole team, so.

Shannon: So I’m so excited for you as well. And again, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it. I think you provided a lot of knowledge and I just, I’m really thankful for all the sentiments that you shared because I hope that that inspires other people to, you know, do the same. I think that agency work, I am seeing an upward trend of caring and I hope that that continues. So, thank you. Absolutely. So good to meet you, Shannon. Thanks for having me. Thank you. And thank you everyone for watching or listening. Please don’t forget to check out other episodes like this and be able to learn from the podcast like I get to do every time I get to host. Thank you so much and have a lovely day.