[Fully Managed] Andrew Morgans from Marknology Ep 58 – Transcript

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Hello everyone and thank you for joining us on the Fully Managed Podcast. Thank you Andrew for joining me today. I really appreciate it.

Andrew: Excited to be here.

Ice Breaker: Marketing a Unique Product

Shannon: Yay. So today we’re going to start with a little game. Get these creative juices flowing. We are going to do “pitch me this,” but we’re gonna do a little spin on it because of what you do. Normally we have someone give us like their 32-second pitch. But I want you to market this specifically for Amazon. So what I’m going to ask you is, can you please market a hairbrush for chinchillas?

Andrew: For chinchillas?

Shannon: For chinchillas specifically.

Andrew: Okay. Well, it’s a weird one. It’s very niche.

Shannon: Yeah.

Andrew: I’ve seen a chinchilla, but I assume they’re like a hamster.

Shannon: They’re kind of hamster. They’re really soft. They’re kind of mink. Mink is made from chinchilla fur.

Andrew: Okay. Whenever we’re gonna market something on Amazon, we’re definitely gonna start with a brand guide. Brand guide, product guide. Let’s just say this is a brand with one product, for context. And in that process we’re gonna come up with colors, themes, fonts, what we want to convey with this product.

With this brush, we’re gonna go real organic. Maybe like a bamboo-ish type of wood color as our aesthetic on the brush. And it’s a super soft brush, so it’s also got a little feminine edge to it. You’re picturing that and we start with the brand guide to kind of get this look, feel of what we’re trying to convey.

Then we go into what we call an image plan. An image plan is where we’re determining, let’s say there’s seven images on Amazon on the left side, whenever you go to a product page and then there’s an A+ page beneath the description. We’re gonna plan out that story of the product down those images. Each image should have its own intention. It should have its own relevancy to what we’re selling.

A lot of times you’re tying in the content, the bullet points along with the images when you’re thinking about all of this. We’re talking about selling a brush. So we’re gonna go through these images and really think about what are the things about the brush that we want to sell.

We want people to know that this brush is not for cats, it’s not for dogs, it is for chinchillas. Right away we’re gonna talk about what makes this brush different than a normal pet brush. And we’re gonna be talking about the soft bristles because specifically that’s what we’re selling with this brush.

Then image two, so we’re talking about like, this is just for that. As soon as someone lands on the page, they’re like, okay, this is what I was looking for. And if they’re looking for a cat brush or dog brush, we also want them to know that this is not for you. So we don’t want any of those negative reviews or whatever.

Image two, we’re gonna go into the benefits of having a brush and brushing your chinchilla. So think less shedding, less dandruff, less itching in allergies for the animal, these kinds of things. So some feature benefits.

And then we’re gonna go with the third one being how it benefits you as an owner to have the brush. So maybe this is a cleaner home. Like the pet isn’t shedding as much. So one is more about how it helps the animal and the other one is more about how it helps the owner.

So we’re three or four images in, right? We’re gonna go through and just keep talking about, we might talk about the origins of our company or why we’re using certain bristles or bamboo or whatever that is in our product line. So we want one product that really focuses on us as a brand and why we are doing what we’re doing to solve this problem.

Maybe we had a chinchilla that just always had matted hair and it really needed a brush and there wasn’t one that existed in all the brushes that were out there like hurt her skin. So we had to make something super soft for our chinchilla that is like kind of that origin story we want to hit.

And then maybe our last image is talking about a product coming down the line or some other products we have in our line that we’re gonna be doing or some kind of way that we give back, or some kind of feature like that.

So really as you go through, first we’re confirming that this is the product that they’re looking for, and then we’re talking about how this helps the animal and makes them kind of the hero. And then it makes the purchaser of the item the hero by being able to take care of their animal. And then we talk about why we got into the business in the first place. That’s the first time I’ve had to do that on a show.

Shannon: You did so well. That was wonderfully comprehensive.

Andrew: Thank you. You know, let’s give people a little bit what they want.

Shannon: Yeah, I mean, that was a perfect plan for a hairbrush for chinchillas. I’m sure someone, if you guys have a hairbrush for chinchillas, you can steal that. With Andrew’s permission. Maybe you should copyright it right before this comes out.

Andrew: Free knowledge. Just take and run with it.

Podcast Introduction

Shannon: So that’s what this podcast is for. So I appreciate the offer. Well, thank you again for joining me, Andrew. That was wonderful. And thank you everyone for coming on and joining us for the Fully Managed Podcast. This is a podcast where we discuss marketing and business tips to help assist you on your business journey. Maybe they’re a little more practical than chinchilla hairbrushes, but I’m your host Shannon, Penji’s partnership coordinator, and I’m joined here today with a very special guest, Andrew Morgans, founder of Marknology. Thank you so much for joining me today again.

Andrew: Thanks for having me. I’m excited to just chat. Sometimes we’re talking Amazon, sometimes we’re talking agency, but I think we’re always talking marketing and branding and content. They all tie in together, so it’ll be a lot of fun.

Andrew’s Background and Journey

Shannon: Yeah. So first, could you start by maybe introducing yourself a little bit differently than I would? Tell us a little bit about yourself, your work, what kind of led you to this point and what you’re doing now.

Andrew: Yeah, well, I’m based out of the Midwest in Kansas City. This has been home. I grew up abroad in Africa till I was 16. Went to college in Hawaii and then Kansas City has always been where family was. So, ended up landing here. I like being from the Midwest. I think it’s a great place to be from, as long as you get out and get to travel. I think also when you’re from here, it creates a different kind of marketer than someone on the east coast or the west coast. There’s just a different culture here that leads to that.

Out of that, I guess I’ve always just been, I was a musician for a long time, actually a full-time musician and just got tired of being poor. I had been going to school for computer science. I got out of school, got into networking, hated it. Switched to e-commerce my second year, took a chance at a startup, and this is like 15 years ago probably. And I found e-commerce and just haven’t ever looked back. I’ve just fallen in love with e-commerce.

I love the creativity, the imagination that you can put into play, especially online. We can make a new offer in 15 minutes and be selling it, which to me is just incredible, compared to like how long things used to take in the past to bring a product to market.

So, 15 years in e-commerce, in the Amazon space building brands, I have a company named Marknology. We’re a team of about 30 that help brands and sellers on Amazon, from running their advertising to creating video images, brand guides and brand briefs, all the way to SEO profitability on the platform. You name it, it’s a whole ecosystem, just like a Shopify website or walmart.com or anything else like that. You have the logistics part, you have the marketing part, you have the images and branding. So we help with all of that and have been doing that as a company for 11 years.

We work with brands all over the world from Fortune 50 companies all the way down to mom and pops, like trying to sell their first chinchilla brush. That’s a silly story, but that’s very real. A lot of times we come across small brands like that, that we’re working with, that are really using Amazon to just get outside of their local reach.

Building Brands and Vertical Integration

Andrew: I’m also a brand builder. I’ve got seven brands that are e-commerce brands, not part of the agency. So as much as I’m an agency service provider, I like people to think of me as a brand builder and an owner of brands as well. I’m going through the same struggles, trying to figure out the same things, new ways of offering things. I have a warehouse and third-party logistics. So it’s all vertically integrated, if that makes sense.

The agency helps me build the brands, the warehouse and 3PL helps us execute on the brands. So very much all tied in together. What else? We’re certified on Walmart, Amazon, TikTok, Shopify, eBay, so we like to call ourselves a marketplace agency, in that we assist with all of those things.

I just love building brands, love people, love helping people grow their businesses and help them tell their stories with their products. I think I really enjoy problem solving and storytelling as a person. I’m doing Amazon and e-commerce now, but I think if anything was ever to change down the road, I would still be looking for some problem solving and storytelling. Maybe that’s a different way of introducing myself, but kind of the whole story there in two minutes.

Non-Linear Paths to Marketing

Shannon: That sounds great. No, I appreciate that and it’s nice to know that you’re so passionate about it having had such a journey up until this point. Especially I think that, and I think I might actually say this a lot, maybe I’m being redundant on the podcast, but I think that people with marketing roles usually do not have a linear path often.

I love that because I think that there’s so many different elements that go into the way you do things. And it’s so cool and unique because everyone’s so varied in their strategies and their backgrounds and the choices that they make in their role. And they can all be successful, but in very varied ways, and it’s just a really great thing to be able to meet people like yourself that do something differently than maybe someone that I talked to last week.

Andrew: I think that’s what makes it so great. I would’ve never thought of being a marketer growing up, that wasn’t what I thought about being. But now that I know more of what it is, it’s really storytelling and what makes each team and individual that’s helping you create something or market something different is the stories that got us here and our experiences.

Traveling, music, the arts, all these things are things that inspire people. Maybe it’s their dog, maybe it’s their kids. People have different things that inspire them and it’s really the culmination of all of those things that is what comes out of us as we create and market. So I think that’s why you can have so many talented people and still have something that’s special for each one because it’s really bringing our path or our experiences to what we’re doing.

The Technical and Creative Sides of Marketing

Shannon: Yeah, that’s the beauty of something that’s technical, like marketing, but also something that’s creative because I know that there’s probably so many roles in different spaces that you kind of have to do the same thing the same way, but marketing is so vast and different and there’s so many different strategies that work for different brands or different companies or different products or services, and it’s so interesting to see the way that people’s brains think about doing that. It’s just, I’m geeking out a little bit, but it’s just really cool.

Andrew: That’s actually why I came up with my name. I think everyone thinks I named it of the study of Mark or like something I don’t really know. But that’s not the case. My name’s Drew. It was really like I was an e-commerce manager and was in the middle between the technology team and the marketing team at my first corporate role as an e-commerce manager. And I would call something called the “ology launch” when I was inviting both teams.

Because I think to be successful in e-commerce today, you need that marketing aspect, but you have to be technical as well. And your ability to leverage technology is really whether you’re gonna be a successful marketer or not in 2025. So that’s a little bit of the name origin, and how I came up with “ology.”

Shannon: I’m happy that you explained that too, because I’m sure the audience is questioning it. But so was I. And I forgot to ask.

Andrew: You know, 11 years later, I might think of a different name, but at the time it was a domain that was next to free. If you make up a word, it’s next to free. It’s next to free. Like Uber or Bird or any of those things. Without context, Marknology, I wasn’t, I didn’t have to have the word technology and I was bootstrapped and trying to figure stuff out, and so I just made it my own word.

Shannon: You know that Uber is a word right?

Andrew: It is now.

Shannon: Was it? Like, what does it mean?

Andrew: It means like a lot, like a bunch of something. I think it’s German. It usually has the two dots on top. I don’t know what those are called.

Shannon: Okay, so technically not an English word.

Andrew: No, that’s a stretch. That made me feel silly, but I don’t know all of the language.

Shannon: I know what you mean. I mean, I don’t think people were really saying it much in the states.

Andrew: Yeah. Just like, you know, you think of the powerhouses that exist, like Nike. And what are these scooters called? Birds. If you understand the word right. So lime, you know, if you do the branding right, if you do the messaging right, you can call it whatever you want and make sense of it.

Deciding on Marketplace Platforms

Shannon: Exactly. So, you mentioned that you utilize multiple platforms outside of Amazon, like eBay and different things like that. I was curious, how do you make the determination of what will do better on each one? Is it from their experience using those platforms already or what is your process for that?

Andrew: Yeah, good question. There’s definitely not a black and white way of going about it. If a brand is already on eBay or TikTok shop or something like that and comes to us and they already have experience, we’re definitely gonna take that into account. And why they’re coming to us.

If it’s a brand that’s not on any of them, generally Amazon is our go-to platform. That is our number one, it’s the one we have a hundred thousand hours of experience on as the leadership team even. And it has the most customers and the biggest reach. So generally it’s Amazon first, but there’s advantages to being on Etsy or chewy.com or TikTok shop or others.

For example, eBay is great for games, automotive parts, vintage products. There’s a lot of new items there and they have ads now that people wouldn’t expect. Otherwise, sometimes you want to be on eBay simply to protect your brand and make sure that there aren’t some bad players there, like reselling your products off of Amazon or somewhere else marking it up. So for that customer, for brand protection, sometimes you want to be there as a brand simply to keep those bad players. You can’t police the channel if you’re not there.

Chewy.com is a great channel, but you have to be pet-related. Instacart is a great channel, but you have to be in local grocery stores. Etsy for handmade, you know, Amazon has Amazon Custom and Amazon Handmade. I don’t know if people know that, but they have these separate marketplaces that are kind of like, you can filter by only things that are handmade or only things that are custom. But not as well known as Etsy.

Etsy is where I go, I’m an e-commerce guy. I go to Etsy to buy a lot of my Christmas gifts. Why? Because they’re very unique gifts. And so Etsy is a channel that’s great for those unique gifts or those custom gifts.

Using TikTok Shop for Niche Products

Andrew: TikTok Shop, for example, is a great channel. It can be a lot of things. It’s growing and maturing as we go. But imagine that you have an invention product. Something that no one’s looking for. Maybe a chinchilla brush, maybe there’s no one looking for a chinchilla brush, but there are people with chinchillas. If you get it in front of them, they might be like, this is something that I need, but they’re not actively looking for it.

I think of like the fidget spinner. No one knew what a fidget spinner was until we saw one, and then you know what a fidget spinner is now. We all know what a fidget spinner is, but on Amazon to get sales is definitely based on what someone is typing into the search bar to get results for that thing. Well, if they’re not typing in anything to find what you’re selling, ’cause they’ve never heard of it, they’re never gonna come across you.

Whereas on TikTok or Instagram, you can advertise in a different way. You can advertise by demographic age interest, people that have liked an ADHD post, or people that have liked an anxiety post. You could then show a fidget spinner, which is like to help calm people’s nerves that are anxious or ADHD.

Platform Advantages and Competition

Andrew: In context, every channel, every platform has its own advantages and disadvantages. For example, launching on Amazon Canada, while it’s a little bit more work to go through their policies and exporting product and things like that, it’s a lot smaller marketplace. So if you’re in a competitive niche, going through those hurdles to sell in Canada might be an advantage for you because there’s less competition and you can really start dominating a market like that.

There’s a lot of factors at play. I think one way to start is to see if your competitors are there or people like you selling there. But also as someone that was at the forefront of like really the Amazon industry, at the very beginning, a lot of the products and brands I was putting on Amazon weren’t there already. So there wasn’t someone ahead of me saying, yes, this is a good product to sell, go sell it. We were, a lot of me and the brands I was working with were the first ones, the first ones in that category.

A good rule of thumb is are there a few competitors here that are like me, which shows that they’ve already been kind of pioneering that space a little bit.

Shannon: So, would you recommend that someone be in the space in which their competitors are in or be in a different space so that they’re tapping into a different space?

Andrew: I think a few competitors is a good thing. When I was doing Amazon in the beginning and selling Amazon services, no one having done it, I had to educate the customers. I’m educating them on why Amazon and you should be on Amazon and look at the potential. As there started being more competitors like me selling Amazon, it was like a group effort to educate the masses, if that makes sense. And so in some ways, as I got competition, it actually made it easier to sell my services.

I’m trying to relate that to like a product. If you have several brands, you can get like a big brand, let’s just say you’re in a product category where maybe there’s three competitors and the main competitor is doing tons of marketing, spending crazy dollars on TV, on all of these things. Well, if we sell a product on Amazon that’s like it, maybe it’s cheaper, maybe it’s more affordable, maybe we have a couple different features. As people are being told about this one thing and they come looking for it, there’s gonna be an overflow onto your product simply by being close by. If there’s a hundred competitors, that’s not gonna matter. If there’s like three, it would benefit you. So it’s a matter of like not too saturated, but a little competition’s a good thing.

Learning from Other Businesses

Shannon: Yeah, that’s definitely fair. It makes sense to account for the saturation because I think that is very difficult in certain industries to kind of navigate around. And that makes sense to even tap into those other spaces like eBay or Etsy or whatever it may be, depending on if it makes sense based off of maybe the saturation on Amazon for something like, I’m sure when fidget spinners got really big, that was everyone was selling a fidget spinner on Amazon.

Andrew: Exactly. But think of it like, you ever notice how Walgreens and CVS are always next to each other, like across corners?

Shannon: Yes, yes, yes. We have both of those as well.

Andrew: They’re always next to each other, like on corners. It’s an interesting fact. And they both do well there. It’s not like one cannibalizes the other. So there’s something about understanding that this is a good area for this and they can support both, the market can support both companies, is something that’s just super interesting about human behavior.

Shannon: I always questioned that growing up. I think that was what would make me a good marketer, is that I was questioning these things because we had a McDonald’s and a Burger King next to each other, and I was always like, mom, why would they do that?

Andrew: It’s like no to one allows them to say yes to the other, or like Chipotle and Starbucks. People launch Airbnbs based on if there’s a Starbucks nearby, because Starbucks has a reputation of doing crazy research around the success of their stores. They don’t close that many stores, so Starbucks – it’s almost like you can piggyback on knowing that Starbucks is gonna do their research and know that there’s enough customers around to keep their store busy and it’s a good area for them to pick. And so by doing so, you can kind of piggyback on that company’s research and knowing that they’re only gonna choose the best locations.

Leveraging Online Success for Retail Opportunities

Shannon: That is genius. I never really thought about it like that, that other institutions or businesses or companies do studies on their specific areas. I’m thinking about that for Whole Foods specifically because I know they have a very particular demographic which they target. People will write to Whole Foods in order to get them in their area because they want them so bad, which I don’t know why it’s very expensive at Whole Foods. Why do you want that one?

Andrew: Yeah. I don’t think it’s just about price there. I think it’s about food quality, or at least the perception of food quality. But I can tell you that retail is not driven in the same way that it used to be. I have personally had brands that I’ve launched on Amazon that are now in Whole Foods, and they got the Whole Foods invitation from success on Amazon. That’s really cool.

So Amazon, and you can use this as a brand too. You can essentially market to an area or sell on Amazon, track your zip codes, where you’re selling to. And let’s say you’ve been selling a food product on Amazon for two years. You’ve got a lot of data – you can then look at where you’re selling a lot of product by zip code, and then approach grocery stores in that area and say, “Hey, I’ve already been selling, I’ve sold to 5,000 customers in the last 24 months in your zip code. I think we would do really good in your store” and you’re then leveraging your online data to then make good decisions in retail and where to focus.

So it’s really switched around a lot, in regards to which one they approach first. And these stores, these retail stores are not making guesses anymore by having buyers in those positions just saying, what product do we think is hot? Or what brands do we want to cover? Instead, they’re going to homedepot.com seeing what’s selling well there and then deciding that’s what they want to keep in those specific stores.

So it’s just getting real data driven. It’s a great place for brands to really get a start, but you have to do well to then get those retail opportunities. You need to be doing well with your e-commerce, even if that’s not your end goal. Let’s say e-commerce isn’t your end all be all and you want to be a retail brand, you still have to do well in order to get the attention of those stores.

Shannon: Yeah, I never really thought about intertwining the two, like using one to leverage the other because that makes a lot of sense. Especially it shows that credibility of the business of being able to sell and that people do want this.

Andrew: Better picked. So Whole Foods is picking better items that they’re already seeing get good reviews and good sell through. And they already know people in that area want them so they’re not picking duds. So they’re making less mistakes.

And the brands are getting better terms often because they’re saying, look what I’ve done on my own for two years. We don’t need you Walmart, or like how it used to be when these brands would get bent over backwards, so to speak, in regards to coming into a Walmart or getting a Walmart deal or getting a target deal. Now they’re able to leverage their own success or kind of stand on their own feet when they make those deals and getting better terms.

I honestly think it’s a great thing for the industry and allowing smaller brands to kind of stand on their own feet, without just needing these massive retailers. You can see Amazon as a retailer, but it’s not exactly the same. There’s not like gatekeepers in regards to who can sell and who can’t sell.

Managing International Markets

Shannon: Yeah. Well, speaking of, you mentioned Amazon Canada, which I thought was very interesting because one, I did not know that there was a specific one. Do you have to navigate around certain international differences or rules for certain brands and how you approach marketing them? And how do you account for this where you know you have to educate yourself to be able to do this?

Andrew: Yeah, it’s a good question. I actually love it because it just makes me feel cool to be selling some small brands all over the world. But if you know how to do Amazon US, it’s the same movements on Amazon Australia or Amazon Canada or Amazon UK or Amazon Germany, or Amazon Italy or Amazon Ireland, Amazon South Africa – the same images and content and SEO and advertising.

What changes is tax law, what changes is tariffs, what changes is, in Canada for example, a lot of products have to be in French as well if they have labels. So some products are harder. Other products are easier. Like clothing isn’t the same as an ingestible item, like a food item.

But also some of those difficulties or those barriers to entry are great because if you’re able to, if you’re that type of brand or team where you’re organized and paperwork isn’t an issue and you’re gonna move through it, there’s a lot of other brands that won’t go to that effort. And so if you do, you’re now kind of creating a moat around your business.

There’s also services out there that focus on translating listings and things like that. Translating images to be in French or in Spanish. We actually have a bilingual team, so we cover a few languages just as a team.

Cultural Considerations

Andrew: One other thing I’d say is like Germany, for example, selling in Germany, if you just use the same content, the images that are really communicating to the customers and you use those same images in Germany, you’re probably not gonna do very well. There’s cultural differences. The German customer doesn’t like the fluff. They don’t want the fancy emotional content. They want details, they want facts, they want what’s in my product, what’s in the box, what’s it come with, just don’t be fluffy.

American customer wants to be sold to a little bit, we want to be sold, we like a good story. So just a little example of how selling in the different marketplaces can be. It’s definitely something to learn. I’ve had German brands struggle in the US, I’ve had US brands struggle in Germany ’cause they’re just missing that ability to communicate effectively.

Shannon: That’s kind of fun though, because you have to think about the psychology of it. Like every person is really very different and so you have to figure out, especially a lot of people are just focusing on one customer base when they start, but then they realize that they can expand that and they have to account for all these differences. It’s very cool. It sounds daunting, I’m sure, to a lot of people, but it does sound very interesting to be able to navigate.

Team Composition and Cultural Understanding

Andrew: So to speak to some of it, I think it’s interesting that half of my design team is in Colombia. They’re on the same time zone as us. Bogota and Maine are very similar to the West, very similar to the US in regards to the shopping that they have and the way that people dress and style and culture. It’s Spanish speaking, yes, but the culture is not that far removed.

There’s a lot of virtual teams or agencies that have teams in India or Pakistan or the Philippines and just for understanding, kind of what that looks like factually – there’s a lot of Filipinos that have never had some of the things that we have in the west. There’s a big difference in wages and things like that.

Well, if you have a team in the Philippines trying to help you sell emotional content, like selling a backpack that’s 250 bucks when they’ve never owned one, it can be hard. There can be a cultural divide there. So I think whenever you’re depending on what you’re doing, not only who you’re selling to, but the team that’s helping you do it – can they communicate? Can my American team communicate effectively to a German customer? I’m not sure.

For us, the Colombian team has been great ’cause we work primarily with selling in the US. But Amazon Japan is one of the biggest marketplaces that Amazon has. I need help with that. I use a partner to help translate listings and help with the content and things like that because the Japanese culture is just far removed from our team and where we are.

So there’s just a lot of learnings around who’s on your team, who you’re using for what, and understanding that some of us literally have completely different lives. Our normal day-to-day lives are just extremely different than some of the people on our teams, across all types of companies. It’s just a good reminder that those aren’t bad things. Those are great things – they make a team diverse. But also understanding that some things we take for granted are not so straightforward in other cultures.

Marketing as Relationship Building

Shannon: Yeah, I think those are really important things to account for. I’ve heard some very funny and scary stories about some PR nightmares when you’re not accounting for cultures. So I think that it’s definitely something that people should read up on before marketing in a certain space, especially ’cause things can come off as offensive if you’re not careful. It could be very normal and natural in one culture, but not in another.

Andrew: Right. ‘Cause at the end of the day, marketing is relationship building. We’re trying to reach customers, we’re trying to keep a healthy relationship with them. That’s why you email them. That’s why you communicate with them. Just as if you were standing in the store and selling it yourself and you’re talking to them about your product.

At the core of every good relationship is authenticity and trust. If you’re communicating, but holding some stuff back or you’re communicating, but you’re talking about something that they don’t care about or you’re communicating, but you’re missing some minor details that can make a big difference in another language – it’s a relationship that’s built on a certain level of mistrust because something just doesn’t feel right or it’s not being communicated right.

And that’s really the nuance – is that communication and relationship piece and putting in the effort, I think. Depending on where you’re marketing or how you’re selling, even in the US we have a bunch of subcultures here. Are we selling to Gen Z? Are we selling to millennials? Are we selling to baby boomers? And the difference in getting their trust as a customer comes down to understanding who they are.

Conclusion

Shannon: 100%. I think that’s a really good insight to end on because specifically I think paying attention to that is really good advice for some people that might not think it’s that different. I appreciate your comment on the US with subcultures specifically because there are things that you really need to think about.

If you’re in a specific headspace of only experiencing a specific type of culture or being in a specific interest group, you might not understand that maybe a baby boomer might need slightly larger font, just based off of the idea that maybe their eyesight is a little worse because they’re a little older. It’s like simple things like that can make such a huge difference because you just don’t want people to click off.

Andrew: It’s like they feel known because this fits them better.

Shannon: Yeah, exactly. So thank you so much, one for joining me and for providing so much knowledge. I really appreciate this. This is a more niche subject that I get to get into normally. So it was really cool to be able to learn about it. And selfishly, I love this podcast ’cause I get to learn too. So thank you so much for coming on with me today.

Andrew: Thanks for having me on the show. It’s been a lot of fun.

Shannon: Thank you and thank you everyone for listening. We’d be nothing without you, so please check out other episodes and get to learn like I get to do every time. Thank you so much and have a lovely day.

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