[Fully Managed] Leslie Jones Ep. 59 – Podcast Highlights and Transcript

Shannon: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Fully Managed Podcast, the podcast where we discuss marketing and business tips to help assist you on your business journey. I’m your host Shannon, Penji’s partnership coordinator, and I’m joined here today with a very special guest, Leslie Jones from Sublime Media Group.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it.

Leslie: I’m so excited to be here. Hey, everyone. Thank you for joining me.

Leslie’s Background and Career Journey

Shannon: Could you start by telling us a little bit about yourself, anything that you think would be relevant or not relevant? If you want to share some fun facts, and then tell us a little about your business journey, kind of how you got to this point, and anything that you think people should know.

Leslie: Yeah. So I like to tell people when they ask about my career journey and things like that, I am an art club kid that grew up. I loved art as a kid. I love to paint, I love to draw. I painted these behind me. Like I love that side of creativity, but I also am a nerd. We were talking before we recorded about going to school forever. I totally could and I love business. I love the business world. I love the drive that it takes and the grit and that kind of ambition is just in my blood. So, marketing kind of found me. I actually was pre-med when I was in high school.

Shannon: In high school?

Leslie: Well, yeah, like, I did we have this club that was for health sciences, and I was all in it. I think I just watched too much Grey’s Anatomy. Looking back, I think I just was like, I wanna also be Christina. You know, she was the coolest she was. But through all of that, I still was super involved in marketing in high school and things like that. We had a club called DECA. I was involved with that.

But I still was like, I’m gonna be a doctor and do these things. And then I went to my first semester of college and I realized, I was like, oh, what have I done? This is not right. This is not it. And so marketing just kind of made sense because I had already had these two worlds, and I stepped into it and it just felt so right. And I’ve not looked back since.

I feel like marketing is the one place where I can have both sides of my brain, my artist side of my brain, my strategy side of my brain, and I’m able to pull those two things together. And it’s just so much fun. I love it. I’ve been at Sublime Media Group for about a year and a half, being a creative project manager there.

But before that, I did some marketing and recruiting for our MBA program at Western Kentucky University, that I graduated from. I got to help market it, which was really cool, and I worked at a marketing agency before that. So it’s been a journey. We’re still on it. It’s different every day, but I truly love it.

The Path to Marketing

Shannon: Oh, that’s so nice. It’s nice. I think a lot of people fall into marketing. I do run into that often. Like, I actually talked to my first podcast guest yesterday who said that they actually had a linear marketing path. Like they went to school for marketing and then I’ve interviewed like 80 people.

Leslie: That’s great. It’s, I mean, if you know what you want, that’s awesome.

Shannon: But it’s like, I don’t really often talk to people that have a linear path in marketing. I think it’s one of those fields that I think is so cool because you can kind of come from any background and be good at it if you’re interested in it.

Not to take away from all the talented marketers out there, but I mean, like, you can take experience from a lot of different places and incorporate it into the way that you work. And I think that’s really cool because there’s not a lot of professions I think that you don’t have to have experience and to be good at. It’s just like you can pull things from a lot or inspiration from a lot of different places.

Leslie: Right. It’s really just about people. And I actually talked about that when I interviewed at this job at Sublime, Austin, our boss, our CEO, was asking me like, you know, what is the consistent thing for you? Like, what’s the thing that kind of gets you going? And I was like, people, and I think that’s one of the, that’s kind of the continuity with marketing is that you don’t have to be a great graphic designer. You don’t have to be like the smartest person in the room. You never need to be any of those things.

But if you know people and you know how they work and you like understanding them, then marketing will work out for you. Because a lot of it’s just psychology. So, I think, I think you’re absolutely right. I think when it comes on to it, it’s not about this, it’s hard to get secret with like, going back to medicine. It’s not this like eight-year residency program where then you like have to grind in all these things. Like it is attainable and accessible and I think that’s really fun because it’s diverse. We have a lot of different people with a lot of different minds in our field.

Marketing as an Inclusive Profession

Shannon: Yeah. I really like delving into all the minds that are in marketing because I think that, I guess the word maybe the word I’m trying to use is inclusive profession. Like I do like that it’s one of those things where there’s so many people that I’ve talked to that have started agencies and different things that didn’t even have a college degree and are successful. And I think that it’s just a very cool thing because I also think that with agency work, a lot of people, like the job descriptions may look extensive, but they’re very much like willing to consider someone right out of college because it’s like it’s a new environment that they’re trying to build.

And I just love that because I don’t think there’s a lot of areas that accept younger people and like younger minds into their work. But like, you know, younger minds get the internet, they understand it better. It’s like it’s a no-brainer that you should take younger minds into your work.

Leslie: Yeah. No, I think you’re absolutely right. I think that marketing and our field as a whole really has to be innovation forward, innovation first. And I think, you know, you’ve seen it a little bit in the tech industry, like we see like a little bit of those young minds, but also like they kind of have to break out and kind of go against the grain completely.

I think you’re absolutely right that marketing says like, no, no, we need you. We need your thought process. Because I mean, even these people that are like 10 years younger than us, the way that they speak and the way that they talk and the way that they use social media is so different. And so it just changes so fast that I think if we weren’t willing to accept new thought into our landscape, I think that we would get outdated and it wouldn’t work.

Shannon: Mm-hmm.

Leslie: I think we wouldn’t be able to actually connect people to services and products because I think we have to keep up.

The Rapidly Changing Marketing Landscape

Shannon: Yeah, marketing is also a field that’s constantly rapidly changing, where like, that’s why I think that the linear path of going to school for it, it’s like it’s outdated within like the year that you’re there, even if they’re updating it.

And so it’s really cool because it’s a profession that I feel like you can learn on the spot more than any other way of doing it, like a traditional way. And young minds are valued because they’re the closest to being relevant to media because they’re living in it. Whereas I know now kind of everyone’s living in it, but for trends and different things like that, it’s something that they’re constantly updated in because it’s like their whole lives.

Leslie: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it definitely is.

Team Communication and Collaboration

Shannon: So, you mentioned being people-centered, and you also work with a team, as well, correct?

Leslie: We do.

Shannon: How are you able to effectively communicate with your team to ensure that there’s not only collaboration but also that jobs are getting done correctly, but they’re also being able to be creatively innovative and happy doing their work?

Leslie: Yeah, so that has definitely been a learning curve. Sublime is a team of 14, and we have clients all over. So it’s definitely a, everyone has to pull their weight all the time type system. And I had always been a people-oriented person. I went back and got my MBA because I wanted to get more of that kind of management. The fancy word is acumen, I guess, but that feels like too big of a word. But you know, like that management background and take some of those courses.

The marketing education side of it that I got in undergrad, I loved, and you were talking earlier about how it can get outdated. I absolutely agree, and that’s something that I’ve actually talked with our marketing department at Western about a lot of increasing systems and the tactics that we use and things like that.

But the good thing is that I did get that baseline element of this is how marketing works. This is how targeting works and those kinds of things. So, definitely my education kind of helped me as a whole get to where I am because I’ve been able to kind of understand the marketing formula enough to be able to effectively communicate that to our team.

But we have a team of insanely creative artists. And they would not claim to be marketing people. They would not claim to be business people. And so for me and our other project manager David, we have to all the time think about, okay, this is the end goal. This is our client. We have to communicate that to the client in their language because they’re not gonna understand it either.

But then our team is also a whole group of artistic people. And so they’re proud of their work. They really love their work. And so trying to communicate that of, yes, I know you’re tied to this, but the client wants to go in this direction. And I know it might not be the direction you think is best. I don’t necessarily think it’s best either, but what the client thinks is best. And it still attains their goal.

So it’s definitely something that we, as a team, talk about every single day. And our processes change every single day. Like for example, we went from really kind of having our social media department, our video production department, and then our sales and marketing department that I fall under. And we realized very quickly in the past year that we have to reintegrate.

Agency Evolution and Adaptation

Leslie: When I went into Sublime, they were a pretty well-oiled machine. Like they had kind of their systems down, but the way social media is rapidly changing. Even just the guys came from a news journalism background when they started. So they did a lot of kind of traditional ad work. And then they also had the digital department. Well, now obviously all those things combined, and they knew that, and they’ve done that.

But now, really thinking about creating campaigns, digital campaigns, that from the very first consult meeting we have to think about digital. And how that’s fleshed out and how that’s changed. We’ve had to reintegrate our whole process. You know, our project management system Monday that we use. We’ve had to change that completely. We’ve had to change meetings, the way we go about meetings, who we get integrated when.

I mean, it’s definitely something that we, I would say we’re still learning, and I’m still learning every day. But honestly, it’s from the mistakes from the failures. Not failures on a client end, but failures as far as, like, oh, that seemed a lot more complicated than it needed to. Or things like that. Kind of those internal mistakes and failures that I think we’ve been able to really overcome.

So I know that that’s kind of a broad answer. I wish I had, like, this is what you do to collaborate effectively in your team, but I honestly do believe though that over communication is better than no communication at all. So I have gotten used to being redundant and saying the same thing over and over and over again, and it works. You know, you just have to be willing to continue to say the same things a lot.

Shannon: Yeah. No, I also appreciate you kind of mentioning that it’s like a work in progress because I think that that’s constantly going to happen in the agency world, especially for agencies that are growing, there’s going to constantly be like reorientation, people like to be communicated with differently. Like there’s a more effective way of communicating with certain people than others. Everyone’s different.

So I think that it’s a good thing that things are constantly, like, in progress, especially for that on that end, because I don’t think there’s a perfect way of doing things. I think also a lot of people like to model themselves off of, like, corporate structures, and I think that’s the worst thing ever that would never work.

Balancing Creativity and Structure

Leslie: Our CEO and CFO, and our owners, they came from a very corporate environment and they left it, and they are like so anti-corporate almost to a fault. There have been a few of us that have come in and have been like, but, but we need this system. We need this. You know, so it’s like that.

And they’re incredible, and I love them so much, but it’s definitely been an interesting pendulum swing that we’re all constantly fighting. Of like, okay, this is how, because for creatives, like, a corporate environment stifles them. I’ve seen it. Like, it totally takes away the ability to just dream big and come up with these incredible things.

So we don’t wanna stifle that. But also, what about efficiency in busines,s and how do we push things along? Because we can’t just take months and months and months on something. Sometimes we have days, sometimes we have a week, you know, sometimes we have hours. So that, it’s just this constant back and forth of like, what’s the opportunity cost that we’re gonna take in this specific project and situation.

Shannon: Yeah. There’s definitely structures that make sense that can be translated into different modes of business, I guess. I think I aligned with that perfectly, that agencies are very different than a corporation and they should be, and I like that there’s the way that they are. And I think that trying to align them like directly with corporate structure is negative because I agree with you. It’ll stifle creativity.

I think people often start agencies because they hated being in a corporate environment. Like I find that very often.

Leslie: Yes. That makes a lot of sense.

Shannon: But I think it can be a much more comfortable environment where people can express themselves than other business structures that I see. So I do like that aspect of agencies. I’m sure that, and I know that there’s a lot that are not like that, but it’s nice to see that’s something that’s more common than not.

Leslie: Yeah. I think it’s, I’ve heard like the term like Creative studio, Creative house, you know, and some agencies are different. Like we have some agencies in our area that don’t do this, but Sublime is also content marketing as well. So yes, we’re gonna go through the whole execution process of ad placement, all those things, the digital marketing funnel, that stereotype. But we also are creators as well.

So having that whole in-house production is incredible. But it even adds to that level of like a corporate calendar, corporate layout. It just doesn’t work. I mean, this idea of like hourly structure and all these things, it’s great in theory, but then the studio has to be open when it has to be open. And editors have to edit when things get done. So it’s just kind of one of those things where I think it’s easy to look from an outside view and read a business book and say like, oh yeah, we have to do this.

Shannon: Mm-hmm.

Embracing Fluidity in Creative Business

Leslie: But when it comes down to it, it’s gotta make sense in action. And I think that what I’ve really appreciated about Sublime is, and this is not like, sponsored by Sublime or anything crazy like that, but I do really value the fact that they’re always gonna be fluid with that. Like they’ve never gotten stuck in, sorry, this is the system, and this is how it goes.

I think that it creates messiness. But messiness is good in business, and messiness keeps things moving and going and grinding forward. And I think that fluidity is something that a lot of strong agencies that I’ve seen, they’ve allowed that fluidity and it’s caused a lot of growth.

Whereas I think a lot of bigger streamlined corporate businesses, they miss out on that because it’s like, Nope, you’re a graphic designer, you have to do this. You’re a videographer, you have to do this, or you’re a marketing coordinator. It’s this job description, it does this. Well, what about that marketing coordinator that’s a badass photographer? Like, you know, it’s even into those job roles, things like that, that I think agencies win out by utilizing talent, maximizing talent.

Shannon: Yeah. I definitely agree with that. I think also with the corporate structure for deadlines is even too much sometimes because it makes sense. Obviously, if someone needs something by a certain time, obviously, there needs to be like a deadline for that happening of, obviously, there’s still hiccups and bumps in the road. And I think that as long as you’re communicating effectively with a client that sometimes that can be moved.

But I think that to go back to the stifling creativity when creatives are expected to do things at a certain pace. Sometimes it’s just like it doesn’t work and it’s not like they’re not effectively doing things. It’s just you know, it’s the equivalent of like writer’s block, but creative block of, like, pressure might not create diamonds in these scenarios.

Setting Teams Up for Success

Leslie: And I will say too that something that I’ve learned from a managerial standpoint is understanding the team and knowing, like, I’m thinking about one of our team members in particular best colors. We have incredible, he’s insanely good. He goes at one pace and I know he’s gonna go at one pace. And so part of kind of the project management, marketing management world is setting up your team for success of giving them the right projects.

So I know I have Austin, our CEO, is the fastest editor I’ve ever met in my life. Like, he’s insanely fast. So I know and his quality is amazing, too, but speed is his win. And so I think being willing to be flexible on who does what thing also sets up creatives for success too, because if I know, okay, this piece is a cinematic quality, beautiful piece, or this brand layout or whatever this is, is about how incredible and in-depth and all these things, that has a place, a very important place.

And we try to give those projects to the people that are best aligned where they do have time and then our reels, fast editing, fast-paced, get out the door type things, give those to the people that are best suited for that. I think has helped us a lot.

Shannon: Yeah, that’s incredible. To set your team up for success and also your client to be the happiest, I think that pushing deadlines constantly or having a team member rush to meet a deadline when that’s not the pace that they’re comfortable with, you know, you’re setting both parties up for failure. So it’s incredible that you’re able to adjust to that.

Leslie: Right. Yeah. And it’s still, again, there’s also, in the reality of it, like David and I talk about this all the time, our other project manager, like sometimes you just gotta push them and you have to say, I’m sorry. Like, sorry, but you understand. Like that. And that’s where marketing is that blend of artistry and business. And business moves.

And so for anyone out there that’s in a similar position to me and jobs just know, like sometimes we just have to be the mean person. Not mean, but like, sometimes we just have to know like, they’re not gonna like us today. We’re gonna get on their nerves, but they’ll love us later. Like they’ll be happy with their work or they’ll be happy that it’s done at least.

But I do think that recognizing creatives and where they’re strong helps as far as giving them the majority of that work. So I know if I’m giving this person, I know that they love this area and they’re brilliant in this area. I give them the majority of this area when I have to come in and give them this project that I know that they’re not gonna wanna do, and it’s gonna get on their nerves, hopefully, they’ll do this, and they’ll do it fast, and they can get back to these other things.

Shannon: No, I think that it’s good to know your team, to know what they’re gonna be most effective in doing. Or that they’re gonna be best at, or that they’re gonna be happiest with doing. I think, obviousl,y you’re always gonna run into things that they might not be too happy about, but it’s nice to know them enough to be able to delegate those tasks in a way that’s efficient.

Leslie: For sure. Definitely.

Storytelling Approach in Marketing

Shannon: So you guys have an emphasis on storytelling, I’ve noticed. How do you approach effectively communicating a client’s story in all these different mediums that you provide?

Leslie: Yeah, so I mentioned it earlier. The majority of our team, well actually, we’re finally half and half, us regular non-journalism crew are kind of taking over. But Sublime really started coming out of news. So a lot of John, Austin, our creative director, Nick, David, our other project manager, was in, they were all involved in this local news station in our area, local region.

And with that they as far as degrees all over the place, different things, but they really learned that kind of hard-hitting, hard-pressing. These are the things that matter to get a story done, boom in video. And they really have been able to copy that over into all other areas of our department – social and digital teams.

A lot of our girls have PR backgrounds, kind of non-traditional marketing. I’m actually the only person on the team that has a traditional marketing degree. Traditional marketing avenue.

Shannon: It’s very common.

Leslie: It’s very, very uncommon. So I think for me personally, what I’ve been able to bring is kind of that psychological aspect and thinking about, okay, this seems like an interesting story, but what does it say. So, it’s kind of what I’ve brought in.

But our team has really done a good job of making our clients feel comfortable. A lot of what we do as far as for even social digital content and video, we really ask the client a lot of questions. So we actually do a lot of things similar to kind of you and I talking here. But we do interview-style marketing, which is really fun and really interesting and different.

Shannon: I love that.

The Interview Approach to Client Stories

Leslie: And so we’re able to kind of just have the client not feel like, not put them selling straight to cam and be like, buy from me. But we sit down with them and we ask them questions and they don’t have to look directly at the camera. And obviously, like I’m talking about video, which is one avenue. Marketing is a broad umbrella of things and we’re talking about specific tactics that we do.

But in getting to know our clients in that way, we’re really able to bring that to light through web, through their social media platforms. And really just getting to know them organically. I think that’s something that’s overlooked a lot is we really get into the data and all of these things. And a lot of these businesses, they have the story already exists. It already means something to them.

And so I think what I’ve learned is being able to just get people to be a little bit vulnerable gives us the answers that we need more often than not. And a lot of our people, we work with a lot of service-based businesses, and so we have a lot of their people that are also just as proud of whatever business that we’re working with.

And so we’re able to get a lot of their client partners or customers to be able to highlight them as well. So, really it’s more uncovering stories, I feel like, in a lot of ways.

Shannon: Yeah. That makes sense.

Leslie: Rather than it is like, you know, of course, we get to create random, amazing things and we have this incredible studio, and I get to write scripts, and it’s so much fun. I love it. But even still, it’s really about uncovering their client’s vision, their heart, their passion. Because it’s about them ultimately, and we’re just wanting to make them look as good as possible. So the news background element of it, asking the right questions and starting the right conversations in the right spaces, I think is something that has helped us a lot.

Shannon: Yeah. And I think that it’s really lovely that you’re able to recognize that they have a story already that maybe they’re just not recognizing is important or that they think is unique or whatever it may be. But it’s nice that you’re able to present that in a way that not only makes them look good but also markets them well.

I think that’s a thing that businesses have instilled in them a lot. Like everyone has a story. There’s a reason why you open a business or why you have a service, or why you have a product, whatever it may be. And maybe you don’t think that’s special, but to be able to create something out of that that is special and makes them feel special is very kind.

Finding the Why in Client Stories

Leslie: I think that, you know, Simon Sinek talks about finding your why and all these things, and we all know it and have heard it, but I think when it comes to a marketing standpoint, it’s easy to think about. We work with huge companies, but the majority of the companies that we work with are still regional, local boots on the ground serving the community. And I think they start with a passion, they start for a reason.

And a lot of these entrepreneurs, marketing professionals, all these people we work with, they’re so in the day to day that I think it’s easy to forget those things.

Shannon: Yeah.

Leslie: And so what I love to kind of always get back to is, but what made you do it? You know, what’s that thing that keeps you going? And then that’s when they realize like, oh, I love working with single mothers. Or it’s like this group of people that I love serving all of a sudden. And a lot of times, the data matches that when it’s a good thing.

And so that’s the fun puzzle-solving piece of my job, is to kind of pull those things together because, of course, the client is always right, but we’re not dealing with big enough companies that have done all this research and all these things. Ultimately, like the product has to work or the service has to work and our job is just to get it there.

I am trying to think of the best way to word this. It’s just, of course, like a client knows their business, but that doesn’t mean they know their target market.

Shannon: Yes.

Leslie: And I think storytelling and marketing blends those two things together because then they realize like, oh, I am working with those people. Oh, those people are gravitating towards me. Whereas on my end, I’m saying, okay, this is the demographic. This is why we’re targeting this demographic. Let’s make sure, does this even make sense? This is what they’re saying. You know, does it make sense?

So there is a lot of technical things that go on, but it is served with a purpose of client first, client first, always, problem solving for the client, getting them their time back, things like that. And we’re able to have a lot of fun doing it, which is great too because we get to know people, which is really great.

Shannon: Yeah, I’m sure you can also dig up maybe like an untapped client base that maybe they’re not recognizing that hasn’t been reached, but it makes like a lot of sense for the product or the service that they’re providing.

And I think that’s something that is definitely through. I love the interview approach because I think that’s something that you can really find out a lot about someone because it’s through so many modes of communication and not everyone is effective on all of them. And I think that finding out who they are on a personal level is really helpful in being able to market someone, especially, like, creating that connection with them and finding out what’s important to showcase.

Authenticity in Digital Marketing

Leslie: Right. And I think especially in service-based marketing and as the digital landscape has continued to grow so much, I mean, people want this interaction. They want to feel a little bit of it being raw. They wanna feel like it was a little unedited and things like that.

And the traditional marketing approach of we’re gonna do this 32-second ad, you’re gonna look straight at the camera and say these things that I’ve written, it lacks that genuineness that is so necessary, especially with younger people with buying power. You know, they’re not going for name brands just because of it. They’re going for quality. They’re going for people that stand for the things that they care about.

And so with that, this approach is really necessary because, for a local business owner there is an expectation of them to be some sort of representative. And I’m not saying that business owners are called to be influencers or anything like that, but people want to know who they’re buying from, what they’re buying, and why.

And I think that this kind of storytelling interview approach allows them to be in that driver’s seat without them coming up with what to say and how am I gonna, and that anxiety that comes on because being on camera is stressful, you know? And I’ve been able to calm a lot of people’s nerves and say, Hey, ignore the lights, ignore all the stuff. That’s their job. We’re just talking.

Shannon: Yeah.

Leslie: And then they’re like, really? That’s it? I just talked to you. Like, yeah, that’s it. That’s what podcast interviews are like.

Shannon: Exactly. It’s very similar.

Leslie: It’s very, very similar. And then, you know, I can, of course, we have a list of here’s the end goal of the things that we wanna get across. I’m sure you do, too. You’re talking about doing research before we started this, but I am able to just have them relax.

Shannon: Mm-hmm.

Leslie: And then people will be like, oh my gosh, I didn’t know this about this person. And things like that. So it’s definitely an honor to be able to get to know so many people in our community and get to experience those things with them. It’s really fun.

Shannon: That’s beautiful.

Leslie: That’s really fun. I want, I wanna continue, but we’re actually over time, and I think that was a really great note to end on. That made you look really, really good.

Shannon: Oh my gosh, that’s really sweet. It’s really wonderful how happy you are to talk with your community about who they are and get to know them.

Leslie: Yeah.

Conclusion

Shannon: I think that’s something that I really value about the podcast is getting to know all these different people and their perspectives on how they do things.

Leslie: I completely get it.

Shannon: It’s just a really wonderful experience to get to know people on a personal level from so many different walks of life. So, I appreciate the sentiment.

Leslie: Yeah, it’s amazing. Sorry, I’m a talker. I’m a yapper. We talk about it at work.

Shannon: No, that’s what the podcast is for. It’s for yapping. Don’t even worry. Don’t worry at all. No, that’s like my favorite thing is being able to have people talk about what they’re passionate about. S,o thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it.

Leslie: Yeah, it was so fun. It was so nice to meet you.

Shannon: It was wonderful meeting you, too. And thank you, everyone for watching. Please don’t forget to catch some more videos, learn some things like I get to do every time I do this podcast. And thank you so much again.