[Fully Managed] Tom McClean from Door3 SEO Ep. 128

Shannon:
All righty. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Fully Managed Podcast—the podcast where we discuss marketing and business tips to help assist you on your business journey. I’m your host, Shannon, Penji’s Partnership Coordinator, and I’m joined today by a very special guest, Tom McLean from Door Three. Thank you so much for coming on with me today.

Tom:
Thanks so much. It’s a pleasure. Thanks for the lovely introduction.

Shannon:
Of course! I’m happy that you’re joining me today. Could you start by telling us a little about yourself? Maybe a fun fact that has nothing to do with your work—and then kind of how you got to this point in your career?

Getting to Know Tom McLean

Tom:
Yeah, sure. OK, I’ll start with a fun fact—which maybe I shouldn’t have started with because I’m blanking a bit. Let’s see… Most people don’t know this, but I’m really into watching construction videos on YouTube. They’re completely unrelated to my work—I don’t practice any of that stuff—but I love watching mega builds, infrastructure, train connections, and things like that.

Shannon:
That’s definitely a fun fact. It’s random in the best way.

Tom:
Yeah, I guess it is. So, about myself—my name’s Tom. I’m tuning in from Barcelona, where I live and work with my family. I’m originally from Ireland, though I lived in Germany for several years and studied there as well. I spent a long time in Berlin and have been here in Barcelona for about seven years now. I’m also a relatively new father—I have a son who’s one year and eight months old.

Shannon:
Congratulations! That must be a handful.

Tom:
He’s awesome—and yes, he keeps me very busy. He’s at that stage where he throws everything on the floor and finds it hilarious.

Shannon:
I have a nephew that does that too. They all go through that phase, apparently.

From Graphic Design to UX

Tom:
So career-wise, I’m a classically trained graphic designer in visual communication. I started out doing advertising campaigns as an art director and then transitioned over the last eight years into user experience design—digital products, design thinking, user research—that kind of thing.

Shannon:
That’s an interesting transition.

Tom:
Yeah, it’s been a natural evolution. Oh, another fun fact—I love biking. I do long-distance cycling trips, and it’s my form of meditation. It helps me disconnect from screens and devices.

Shannon:
That’s so important. I unfortunately got into video games right before I started working remotely—and then I just couldn’t play them anymore because I was already staring at screens all day.

Tom:
That makes sense. I’ve had that too—where your brain feels like it’s melting by the end of the day. Sometimes I just can’t even read text anymore. It’s like, “OK, maybe this is a sign to stop.”

Screen Fatigue and Digital Burnout

Shannon:
Exactly! It doesn’t even have to be outdoors—you just need a non-screen hobby. Reading might not help either, since you’re still focusing on something visually. Sometimes, I just want to go outside. Touch grass.

Tom:
Right. That’s the downside of the work we do—it’s so screen-dependent. Maybe we need to work on fixing that.

Shannon:
Yeah, maybe we should bring back paper sketches—go back to the “stone ages” of illustration.

Tom:
I used to do that a lot. Ink and paper. I’d scan it in and clean it up digitally, but I really preferred drawing by hand. I also used to take notes with a notebook, and I believe writing physically helps with memory retention. But now I’ve mostly stopped because I’d lose them. With digital tools, everything’s saved and shareable. Efficiency won out.

Shannon:
It always does. I used to handwrite full essays before typing them up. My 17-page thesis in college? Fully handwritten first.

Tom:
Wow, that’s commitment.

Shannon:
It helped me organize my thoughts, but yeah, major regret in terms of effort.

The Impact of AI on Design

Shannon:
So let’s shift into design a bit. Design, like marketing, is always changing. Are there any current trends that you think are reshaping the industry? And how do you incorporate those into your projects?

Tom:
Great question. There are a few. The big one—of course—is AI. I know it’s buzzy, but we’re working on some AI-first projects now, and it’s definitely changing interface design. Where you used to have a bunch of buttons or prompts, now everything’s collapsing into a single chat input. Fewer visible components, but the potential interactions are way more complex.

For example, ChatGPT’s mobile voice interface was just a black dot—that’s it. No buttons, no menus, just a floating dot.

We’re also moving away from screens into things like voice experiences and mixed reality—what used to be called augmented reality. Smart glasses, layered digital elements—it changes what we consider “design.”

Shannon:
That’s fascinating. So it’s about moving away from rectangles and rethinking how we design?

Tom:
Exactly. And design systems are another major trend—everything’s becoming more systematic. It changes how designers work with each other and with developers. It’s a different mindset now.

Shannon:
Do you feel AI makes your work easier, harder, or about the same?

Tom:
Mostly easier. I’m not a power user, but it helps with automating small things—like finding images or content. I use it more for brainstorming. It’s kind of like having a sounding board when I’m working solo. That part is super valuable, especially in a remote world where you can’t just turn to a teammate.

Remote Work, Human Connection & Creativity

Shannon:
That makes sense. I feel the same—it’s hard to know when it’s OK to message someone when you’re remote. In an office, you can just glance and know if someone’s busy.

Tom:
Exactly. You could walk over and ask, “Got two minutes?” and they’d give you a look that says no—or yes. We’ve lost that organic interaction.

Shannon:
Yeah, we’ve lost some personability post-COVID. Hopefully with AI rising, people will crave more human connection again.

Tom:
I hope so too. I actually love going into a workplace—just the physical separation of work and home helps with mental clarity. I’ve always appreciated a nice walk or bike ride to and from work. It helps reset your mind.

Shannon:
Agreed! I noticed my Spotify Wrapped was lower this year because I didn’t commute anymore. I used to listen to new music during that time.

Tom:
Same. These days I use short walks to listen to language-learning podcasts. But I miss the long commutes for music.

Working Across Time Zones at Door Three

Shannon:
So, Door Three is global. Do you work with designers from different areas?

Tom:
Yes, we do. Our main office is in Manhattan, but we have a design hub here in Barcelona. Half our UX team is here, the other half is in New York, and one team member is in Cairo, Egypt. We also work with developers in Ukraine and across Europe.

Shannon:
How do you manage time zone coordination?

Tom:
We’re lucky—it’s only about a six- to eight-hour difference at most. So we build in overlap hours. My mornings are quiet work time, and my afternoons are for meetings. For the New York team, it’s the opposite. Flexibility is key—we don’t enforce rigid timelines. Everyone works differently, and that’s okay.

Shannon:
That’s a really healthy mindset. I’m a night owl myself. I do my best work in the middle of the night.

Tom:
Same here—especially before my son was born. I used to get into the “design zone” late at night when the world was quiet. Now, I try to pass that flexibility on to my team. As long as people collaborate when needed, they can work however fits their lives.

Fostering Creativity and Team Culture

Shannon:
How do you encourage creativity in your team when someone’s stuck in a rut?

Tom:
We hold weekly workshops every Friday—very informal. We put ideas in a shared spreadsheet and either solve mini design challenges, discuss trends, or just goof off with Figma games. It’s a low-pressure way to stay creative and connected.

We also try to keep a strong team culture. It’s hard to define, but we aim for friendly and fun. We take our work seriously—but not ourselves. And the tools help too. Real-time collaboration in Figma makes things feel more dynamic.

Shannon:
I love that. Comfort is key for creativity to flourish. Collaboration brings in so many perspectives—it’s super inspiring.

Tom:
Exactly. And you should totally join a workshop—it’s easier than you think!

A Favorite Project

Shannon:
Last question—do you have a favorite design project you’ve worked on?

Tom:
Yes! A few years ago, we did a project for a mobility company in Spain. It was one of the few times we got to fully use the design thinking process—user research, prototypes, testing—the whole thing. The idea was an ecosystem for multi-modal transport: shared bikes, subways, energy credits, all connected.

It never got built, but the process was amazing and so validating. We see a lot of our ideas showing up in products today. Even though it wasn’t implemented, it was a win in terms of creativity and team experience.

Shannon:
That’s a great perspective—valuing the process and team connection, not just the outcome.

Tom:
Yeah, after a while, you stop seeing it as failure. You become your own barometer of success. 

Shannon:
It’s like—do you think you identified the problem and addressed it well? Was it a good solution? It becomes this kind of self-critical review process.

Tom:
Yeah, exactly. I mean, it was just a lot of fun. So yeah, that would be my answer.

Shannon:
That’s good! I think it’s so important to enjoy what you do. And I think that, yeah—it should be fun. Especially in creative spaces where rejection happens often. It’s unfortunate, but once you get used to it, you realize you can still be proud of something even if it doesn’t become a successful campaign.

Tom:
Totally. I honestly don’t really even see things as rejection anymore. One thing I really appreciate about the work we do at Door Three—and something I think we do really well—is tight collaboration with our partners. That close working relationship leads to the best results and also the best client relationships.

It’s very much a mindset of: we’re in this together. Our partners know their product inside and out—it’s their baby, after all. And when we come into it, our goal is to be open, to soak in their knowledge like a sponge, and work through the problems with them.

That’s something that’s definitely changed over my career. I used to retreat into a corner and not want to share anything until it was polished and “ready.” But that takes a long time—and sometimes, you never get there. Now, I prefer to share early and often. Collaborate. Workshop. Work through it together.

If something isn’t quite right yet, that’s okay. It’s not wrong—it’s part of the process. You keep going until everyone’s on the same page and says, “Yeah, this is it. This is the obvious solution.”

Learning Through Variety

Shannon:
That’s such a healthy mindset. I also think it must be fun and exciting to get involved in different industries and learn about them, right?

Tom:
Yeah! That’s a really cool point. It’s one of the things I love most about this job. We work with such a varied mix of clients—not just across industries but also in size and maturity.

Sometimes we’re working with huge companies that have thousands of employees. Other times, it’s startups—just one or two people with an idea and no product yet. And that variation keeps things exciting.

During those deep-dive periods, you’re just immersed in that world for a few months. We recently worked on a pet telehealth project—tech for veterinary healthcare. I didn’t know anything about that going in, but we really got into it, understanding the workflows, the needs, everything.

Then, we jumped into a project with a company doing 3D modeling for construction. Suddenly, we’re collaborating with engineers and trying to decipher their terminology—load forces, resistance, all that stuff. But by the end, we were speaking their language.

Same goes for legal tech—we’ve even picked up some legalese from our work with law firms. You just dive in and learn as you go.

Shannon:
That’s so cool to hear. It’s really great to talk to someone who’s so passionate about their work—you can totally tell.

Tom:
Well, it depends on the day! [laughs]

Shannon:
Oh, totally. I think everyone working in the corporate world gets that.

Tom:
Yeah, I was literally talking to some colleagues earlier today. We’re working on a project that’s a real head-scratcher—super complex. We’ve been having these long, thoughtful conversations with our partner trying to unpack the requirements, define the functionality, and understand how the product will work.

And I was just saying to them, “Isn’t it cool that this is our job?” We get to sit in calls and figure out how a new product should work, what its value is, what it’s trying to solve. I find that genuinely interesting.

Shannon:
It’s so nice to look at things from that perspective. I should just stop trying to say “innovative”—it never comes out right! But it is awesome to think of things in new ways, from different angles. Being inspired by something new—that’s such a cool feeling.

That’s what makes the best work, honestly. When something is unfamiliar or daunting at first, but you dive in, figure it out, and create something meaningful—that’s really special. Getting to learn about new industries every day is such a privilege.

Tom:
Most definitely.

Wrapping It Up

Shannon:
Well, I think this is a perfectly wholesome and awesome note to end on—we’re a little over time, maybe a lot, but I think that just means it was a great conversation!

Tom:
Totally my fault for all the technical hiccups—people calling me mid-recording, all that.

Shannon:
Not at all! I had so much fun. I really appreciate you taking the time, especially since this is the end of your day and the beginning of mine. Thanks for making me laugh and for being so knowledgeable and excited about your job.

Tom:
Thanks so much! It was really fun. I appreciate you having me on and wish you the best for the rest of your Friday—as mine winds down.

Shannon:
Thank you! And to everyone listening: Happy Wednesday—because these come out on Wednesdays. Not Friday. It’s actually Wednesday. Hump day!

Tom:
Hump day! Hope this gets you over the hump.

Shannon:
Thank you all for watching and listening! Please don’t forget to like and subscribe to hear more stories like this and get more knowledge—just like I do with every episode. That’s honestly my favorite part of this podcast.

Thank you again, Tom, for joining me today. I really appreciate it.

Tom: My pleasure.

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