[Fully Managed] Deirdre Tindall from Tind-All Creative Marketing Ep. 174

Shannon: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Fully Managed Podcast, the podcast where we discuss marketing and business tips to help assist you on your business journey. I’m your host, Shannon, Penji’s Partnership Coordinator, and I’m joined here today with a very special guest, Deirdre Tindall from Tindall Creative Marketing. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Deirdre: Thank you Shannon, I’m excited to be here. Thank you, I appreciate that.

Background and Career Journey

Shannon: So could you start by telling us a little bit about yourself, kind of how you got to this point in your career and then anything that you think might be relevant that the audience might want to know?

Deirdre: Absolutely. So obviously I have a full service digital marketing agency. We’re based in Connecticut but we’re all over the country. And I have been in a variety of positions where it was sales, marketing, PR, business development for probably the span of my career. I’ve always loved marketing and I love how marketing and sales and business development need to sort of work together.

I started my business seven years ago after sort of being pushed gently by a really huge mentor of mine who’s actually a client now. Yeah, I know. I worked for him for a long time, sort of created my own position with him in the sales, business development, marketing world and PR. And he really believed in me and said you know what, you’ve got such a huge talent for marketing and I want you to just kind of—he kind of pushed me to kind of finally do what I’ve always wanted to do which was start my own business.

So I ended up starting my own business seven years ago and honestly it’s the best decision I ever did. I never have looked back. I think there’s a lot of fear for people starting their own business, especially when you’re used to being in a salaried position and you have the safety of a salary and a check coming in every week and benefits and 401K and all that stuff. And then all that goes away when you decide to start your own business. So he really pushed me, started my business seven years ago, and I really have just loved the ability to have my own business.

Unique Agency Approach

Deirdre: We’re a little bit different of an agency in that because I have a background in sales and business development and starting businesses and understanding that side of the world, I really dovetail that with what I do with marketing. So a lot of times people will come to me looking for marketing help. A lot of people are referred to me just through relationships and connections I’ve had. And a lot of times I’m sort of pausing, putting the pause button on conversations with people about moving forward in marketing until we’ve looked at what’s going on on all this other stuff, like the financial stuff of their business, their sales cycle, having things like a CRM system, a business plan, a marketing plan.

And a lot of times they don’t have that stuff. And so it’s really hard to be really effective for them from a marketing standpoint if they don’t have that stuff and that foundational sort of platform. So I put a pause on the marketing, either help them get connected to somebody who can help them with that business stuff. Or in some cases, I’m also helping them as well. I really like to stay laser focused on the marketing pieces. But in some cases, I’ll do some strategy and consulting with them on the business side so that we get them really set up properly so that when we start doing all that marketing stuff, it’s a win-win and we’re able to help them effectively.

So that’s a little bit sort of how our agency is a little bit different than some other agencies is focusing on that business side as well and that sales side. And we have clients all over the country and clients that are all different shapes and sizes and types and categories. So it’s fun. And every day is a very different day for us.

Shannon: Well, I really like that. And I think that that strategy of not just focusing on marketing and realizing that there’s all these other factors that go into a successful campaign can really foster a long term, meaningful relationship with a client. So I really enjoy that that’s something that you practice because I think a lot of people are very much looking at one thing because they’re focused on that because that’s what they do. But I think that when you’re considering everything else, that’s a more likely scenario for them to actually yield results that are consistent.

Balancing Creativity with Measurable Results

Shannon: So in this kind of results driven industry, how do you balance creativity since you are a creative marketing agency with measurable outcomes?

Deirdre: Yeah. So as you know, being in this marketing space, right, it’s always difficult as a marketer when companies hire you to say, okay, I’m paying you like, where’s the ROI in this, right? And obviously, there’s a lot of analytics that we utilize in a lot of different capacities with what we’re doing, right? I mean, whether it’s running social media, we can get analytics on how well we’re doing. We obviously set goals for clients and help clients with goals that they want to achieve in their marketing results, so we’re able to track a lot of stuff now and with all the technology that we have at our sort of within our wheelhouse now.

We’re also able to track, but you know as well as I do, marketing is such a multi-faceted huge wheel, right, if you will. And a lot of times we get people saying, I saw you on the billboard. I saw you on the TV commercial. I saw you on the radio station. I saw you all these different places because you asked them the question, like, where did you hear about us? Right. And a lot of times they can’t tell you specifically because they’ve seen them in a variety of ways. And so when they make that phone call to finally make a call to buy something or to discuss something about something they’re interested in, a lot of times they can’t say exactly where they saw the person or where they heard about it, but they’ve just seen them everywhere. Right.

And so that’s sort of having a multifaceted approach for clients. And that’s my big thing that I work with clients on is like it’s not just putting up a Facebook page or just putting up a beautiful website or just having a beautiful brand is not enough. That’s not going to get you business. Right. And so that’s where that strategy comes into play and looking at all the different things that we could or couldn’t be doing based on what your desired results are, based on your goals and based on the buyer that you’re trying to go after.

Understanding Target Audiences

Deirdre: Because I think a lot of times companies that we see, they don’t really even know who their ideal buyers are, right? Or buyer personas. So we almost have to kind of go back a lot with clients and say and help them to understand not every client is a good client. And to really hone in on what is the ideal client that they’re looking for. And then from there, we can decide where those people are and then we can decide where we want to market to them. Right. Because if their ideal client is sixty five years old, well, then you don’t need a TikTok account. If your ideal client is in their thirties or in their twenties, then maybe we need to be thinking about marketing on TikTok.

So there’s a lot of different things and factors that go into what we’re doing for clients and how we track the results. I mean, again, with all the technology that we have in our hands now, it’s much easier to do a lot of analytics on things that we’re doing for them. And then the biggest compliment of our work is getting phone calls from clients saying, you know what, ever since we started working with you, the number of calls that are coming in, the number of people that are purchasing from us, the number, right, then we know we’re doing a good job. Because the strategy, the multi-prong approach is working for the clients, those that are willing to listen and those that are willing to invest in it.

Shannon: Yeah, no, I definitely understand that. It’s hard to sometimes pinpoint what specific strategy is working, especially when it’s just feedback that you’re getting. But as long as there’s a clear uptick in the amount of calls or sales that are coming in, then you clearly know that if it’s a stark difference from before you were hired.

Deirdre: Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. And that is really working with the client to really develop what the goal is and what they want to accomplish and getting them to really hone in on that and then deciding what is the best strategy, which avenues are we gonna use? What kind of campaigns are we gonna be focused on to help them get to that goal? And then obviously having the analytics to be able to back it up.

Learning from Campaign Experiences

Shannon: Have you ever had a campaign that you worked on that kind of changed your perspective on how to do any in the future? Like something that worked really well that you hadn’t considered before or something like that?

Deirdre: Yeah, I mean, in all the years that I’ve been doing marketing, I think it’s really trial and error sometimes because you just don’t know until you do. And that’s why I really hone in with clients and I feel like I keep telling them over and over again, like we need a strategy here. A lot of people are just buying this and trying this and doing this and working with different people to do different aspects of marketing or different aspects of sales. And all those people aren’t talking and it’s not cohesive. And then they end up spending a lot more money than they really need to be doing.

So that’s why I keep honing in on like strategy. And then we can decide for a particular client, this may work. Let’s start here. Let’s try this and let’s track it and see what happens. Let’s not do a million different things. Let’s track a few things, try a few campaigns, see how effective it is based on the people who are trying to go after. And then if we’re not getting results, we’re very nimble. Like I’m very nimble and adapting very quickly just to change course based on what we think we need to be doing.

Have every single one of my campaigns that we’ve ever employed for a client worked? No, absolutely not. You can’t even guarantee it. Correct. And you can’t guarantee it because there’s so many things that are just, they’re out of your control. So I think what’s important is not being so set in your ways as far as this is the way to do it, this is gonna work. Be willing to be open to the idea that this may not work and then be able to maneuver quickly to adjust and refocus on something different.

Shannon: Yeah. I think that being able to react in the right way, anytime a campaign does fail, quote unquote, because I think that failure is kind of objective, but yeah, I think that is the best thing that you can do in a marketing role. It’s very tricky. Marketing is a gamble. I think we all understand that phrase and know it very well, is that you can do everything right and still it might not end up the outcome that you wanted. And that doesn’t mean that you didn’t do your job well. It just means that there’s so many factors that contribute to the success of doing that. And it’s good to just readjust and pivot every time that happens. And I think that’s like what can still make you successful and also like communicating with a client, I’m sure.

Client Communication Philosophy

Deirdre: Constantly communicating. Exactly. I mean, the key, that’s the key, right, is I’m in constant communication with my client at all levels about what’s going on, constantly checking in with them. Because you hear that a lot where they’ve worked with other people in the past who are basically take their money and run and like they’re not seeing results. They’re not sending them analytics. Like I just got off a call this morning with a very major law firm that I’m working with. I’m doing consulting and they’re supposed to be getting analytics every thirty days and they’re not getting from this company that they’re using for their website. And I just kind of came in consulting and they’re not getting they haven’t gotten analytics in like two years. And so the question is, why aren’t they sending you analytics? But more importantly, those are things that the company should be sending them based on their contract and they’re not.

So for me, I over communicate to my clients. I’m constantly in contact with them, whether it’s phone text, FaceTime, whatever it is that they need to do. They always have access to me. And I think that right there is a huge difference because a lot of people were not doing that face-to-face one, like everything is an email. Everything is an attachment. There’s just this disconnect. And for me, I really want to be, I want to pick up that phone, talk to them, connect to them, jump on FaceTime, whatever it is we need to do in order to make sure that they feel comfortable with what we’re doing.

Shannon: Yeah no I completely agree with that. Even as much as a lot of my job is podcasting, I do think that I value the face-to-face contact a lot because I don’t know it’s just a way to get to know people and and learn and learning is my favorite thing for sure. But I think that it’s similar to a client relationship in the idea that just because they’re hiring you for a purpose doesn’t mean you can’t learn from them consistently. And because of constant communication, you can continue to learn from each other. And I think that that’s something that’s really valuable in that space. I think that a lot of people, one, don’t have proper communication with their clients, but also they don’t understand them well, if that makes sense.

Going Behind the Scenes

Deirdre: No totally and I’ve even gone so far as I’ve worked with a couple different franchises and I think the franchise owners were shocked when I showed up to actually work on the floor and said hey I want to see what it’s like. Like I mean I remember going into a Jersey Mike’s that I was working with and consulting with and I showed up and said hey I want to work a shift for a couple hours and I just kind of want to see right like how you’re delivering, how are you delivering this to the consumer, how are your staff delivering this, what is what does this feel like for them, what right because I think if I have that experience then I can understand them better and I can also help market them better because I’ve lived that experience. So I know it’s kind of like non-traditional for people to do that but I do that and I think again that’s one thing that sort of sets us up, sets me apart in terms of people choosing to work with me.

Shannon: No I really like that. It almost reminds me of this is maybe a silly comparison but like celebrities that go to work in a fast food place, it’s like they’re just like us, but I’m definitely not a celebrity, but I get what you mean. It’s almost, it’s just an experience of understanding the people that support you. And I think that that’s something that’s very down to earth. And I think that when people see that, they understand that they’re an extension of your business and not just a person that you get a check from.

Deirdre: Right. Absolutely. And that’s also like it’s almost a level of what’s the word I’m looking for? Responsibility, maybe of the fact that you have a more personal connection with them. So you’re not only are you probably more inclined, I mean, if you seem like a good person, that you’re more inclined to do better because you understand what they’re dealing with from on the ground, but also that they probably feel like maybe, oh, you’d probably feel a lot worse if you didn’t do your job well because you know them.

Deirdre: Yeah I think I mean again I think from we have roofing clients we have electrical clients and we have we have the gamut right and so I mean oftentimes when I go to the job site if I’m going to my roofing client like I know all the foremen I know all the guys that are on the job because I frequently show up and I’m there and I’m present and so it’s not just when the owner is there it’s really being present and being connected to all those people. Because again, I think if you have that understanding of what they’re going through on a day-to-day basis and what it’s like to sell the product and what it’s like to implement the product and whatever, I think that that really gives you a unique perspective and you can truly understand like, I don’t need to know everything about roofing. I just need to know enough to make me dangerous so that I can be effective for them, right?

Shannon: Yeah, no, I think that’s a really great point. And this is honestly an approach that I haven’t heard before, which is really, really cool. I like it a lot. And I think that it definitely has to be effective because I just really believe in personal approaches so heavily. I think that agencies have maybe gotten away with that a little bit with technology advancing and all that jazz, but I really do believe that it works because people feel that you care. I think that that’s what a client wants most of all. I’m sure there’s some that don’t really care that much, but I definitely think that is the majority feeling.

Staying Small and Selective

Deirdre: Yeah, absolutely. And I don’t want to ever get to the point where I’m so large that I’m not able to do that. That’s why I keep my agency small and I pick and choose like the types of people that we want to work with. Like I said, not everybody is a good client. Yeah. I think when you accept that and you understand that, that leaves you room to keep focus on the ones that you really the ones that are really the right client for you. And then you can be more effective for those types of people.

Shannon: Exactly. It’s also having some a level of respect for your business and who you want to work with. That’s not just, a bad client for you might not be a bad client for another agency, but it’s just, you’re going to do your best work with the people that you think you work best with. And they’re obviously going to appreciate that to the client, of course.

Job Site Experiences

Shannon: Do you have a favorite job site that you’ve been on?

Deirdre: Shannon, I’ve been on so many different job sites. Well, not to offend the roofers, but I’m sure the roofers aren’t like the best ones. Not that they’re not lovely. Not that the roofers aren’t nice people. Maybe it might be boring to learn about roofing.

No, no, no, no, no. Like you said, like I’m on a constant journey of it’s unbelievable how much I learn every day from every person that I interact with but I love that it’s so interesting like every single day I’m like I said today I’m working at a client and it’s a co-working space and it’s just so interesting the people that you meet up here and all of the different things that I’m learning from other people that are here working here and have offices here.

So it I don’t really have like a favorite job site or a favorite story because all of them are fun and cool and different because they’re all so eclectic. And I mean, I have to say like actually getting in line and like working at Jersey Mike’s was an interesting one, but I had so much appreciation for the franchise as a whole. And even for the local franchise, because Jersey Mike’s is really set apart by some of the their cleanliness and the things they can and cannot do behind the counter and versus like a Subway, for example. And you really see that difference, which again, I can market that much easier, right? You see the difference, again, nothing against Subway, no problem against Subway. It’s just that you really see the difference in how that franchisee is really managing their spaces and their franchise, their local franchisee and the level of what they expect. Like I said, things like cleanliness and how they’re delivering the food to the consumer and stuff like that. It’s very different than what you see if you stood in a line at Subway, as an example.

Those are the things that I’m talking about. You would never get that unless you were behind the counter working and working with the manager and working with the staff, the day-to-day hourly staff people, you’d never get that. Those types of experiences are invaluable to me. And like I said, I don’t really have a favorite one, but that was definitely one that was fun and interesting and very different.

Shannon: No, I can definitely understand that. I constantly—I think I have a sheer, such appreciation for deli counter people. Anyone who’s making a sandwich for me, I don’t understand how you can fit everything in that sandwich. I actually like, I think that it is a talent that I could never, ever hone in on. And I think it’s the coolest thing ever. I truly, I don’t know why, but I just, anytime I get a sandwich, I’m just in sheer awe of how many things can fit inside of the sandwich. And I just, have you made a sandwich? Did you make one?

Deirdre: Well, yeah. So same thing. So I did, but again, they have very strict policies around like how the staff dress and how the staff touch food and that’s what I’m saying like you wouldn’t really know that unless you were working and that’s a really good marketable thing is right that’s a huge mark you know this is a huge reason why people can choose to go to a place like Jersey Mike’s because the food, again, it’s different from franchise to franchise. The idea is hopefully they’re all following the same protocol. Now, if I went to another town and did it, maybe they’re doing things a little bit differently. But the town that I was working in, they’re following that franchise code of ethics. And so that makes the consumer safe and feel good that when they go there, they’re going to get a sandwich that it’s clean. It’s clean that they’re not going to get sick from or whatever. So it’s just examples like that. But I do love going on the job. I do love being with my clients. I do love being in person with them. I do love going on the road with them. And like I said, every day is a totally different day.

Using Experiences for Storytelling

Shannon: I think that’s awesome. That’s something that I really like about this podcast is I think a lot of people assume that I’m talking to the same kind of person, and maybe sometimes I’m talking to the same position of person, but everyone has a different way of doing things, and it’s really interesting to learn from them. It teaches me so much about marketing that I could not find myself looking up. I think that everyone has different approaches to things. I can all be successful, especially since it’s a field that is so vast. But yeah, I think that’s something that I don’t I wouldn’t be able to go on the ground to do any work. So this is the closest thing that I can get to it. And I do really love it. So I can definitely understand why it would be something that’s so helpful.

Yeah it’s so sorry do you use these experiences to I know that storytelling is something that is very valuable in marketing do you use these experiences to kind of craft stories for different clients or is that something that maybe…

Deirdre: For sure I mean for sure I mean storytelling and yeah exactly I mean storytelling is everything in marketing and absolutely weaving relevant experiences into content into social media content into email marketing into anything we’re creating for them whether it’s websites whatever I mean definitely and that again that’s the case for why being that connected to my client is it makes it much easier for us to be able to do what we do for them. And to also have a love of what we’re doing for them and a joy of what we’re doing for them because we’re experiencing it. We’re getting to know them in a deeper, meaningful way. And then it’s much easier to be able to help them market their messaging out to the world or the consumers that they’re trying to get it out to. It’s much easier to do our job. So, yeah, absolutely. I think those experiences do play into the storytelling of the client.

Shannon: I really love that. I think that that firsthand experience is really great too, because you have a better idea of what they actually do rather than them telling you. I think that that’s, it’s more of a full picture of being able to create that story rather than, they might leave things out that you think would be really important and marketable and important for the creative team to be able to go with. And I think that, yeah, that is invaluable. I think that there are so many things that especially I’ve noticed with agencies that founders leave out of their story that they think aren’t relevant or important. And they really are. A lot of the time, there are so many things that they’re not thinking of because they don’t think it’s marketable or they don’t think that it matters. But I think that there’s so many things that consumers care about that you might not be centered in to realize that that’s something that would really be a selling point for what you’re doing.

Deirdre: Right for sure for sure so that’s something that you can really get a good feel for it is it is and again we don’t I don’t want to be like everybody else nor do I want to be like any other agency so I think we’re very different and I like it that way.

Future Vision for the Agency

Shannon: Well, speaking of that, how do you want, how do you kind of imagine your agency in like five to ten years? Like, do you want it to stay the same? Because you did say that you don’t want to get big enough so that you can’t do what you’re doing now is being on the ground. But is there any like changes that you are excited for or would really like to see within the next many years?

Deirdre: Yeah. So, I mean, obviously we’re, we, I want to grow, but grow at the right rate. And I don’t want to ever get to the point where we’re so large. Like I said, that we’re just disconnect, like I’m disconnected from the stuff that makes me tick and the things that are really important to me, which is some of the stuff that I just talked to you about. I don’t want to ever be disconnected where the owner can’t call me or talk to me and they’re talking to my staff. It doesn’t mean that occasionally the mark my staff have to talk to them directly but the point is is that I never want to get to the point where I’m disconnected from that and getting so busy that I can’t do that and probably I probably need to put better boundaries in place for time I see that a lot. But I guess I would rather be more accessible to them. And I think the reality of the situation is that they know that if they text or call me, they’re always going to get somebody, like they’re going to get me. And I may not be able to talk to them at that moment in time, but I’m always messaging them back saying, hey, I’m doing XYZ. I’ll be able to contact you in a couple of minutes or fifteen minutes or just so they know that I’m validating that they connected with me.

But I think in terms of, again, I’ve had my business for seven years. So I think when you first start your business, like you’re taking everybody, right? Like I got to get business in, I got to like whatever. And I think I’m evolving year after year in terms of the way I’m growing my company and how I want my company to look. And for me, I think what I see us going towards in the next few years is really, I love working in the health and wellness space. We have a lot of clients that are therapists and dietitians and fitness instructors and multi-level marketing, very successful multi-level marketing folks. And I love that space because I, myself, that stuff is important to me, fitness and health and all that. So I see myself and we sort of, or sort of migrating that way a little bit.

Migrating more into that space doesn’t mean that we’re not going to be working with a bunch of other people. But I love that space and I see us moving into that direction a little bit more. But I still feel like I like to work with the small to medium sized businesses. Not a lot of agencies want to work with small business owners. I love working in the small business space. So I don’t really see that changing too much. I’m careful about who I’m adding on for staff. I’ve had most of my staff with me since the beginning of time since we started. So I’m very careful about that. And like I said, being a little bit choosier, like getting very defined, which is also what we’re teaching our clients to be very definitive about who it is that you’re looking for. Because we spend so much time wasted time going after all of these people that are really not our ideal customer. And if we become laser focused on what we are actually looking for, it’s much easier to market them and ourselves for those types of people. And we can attract those types of people. So that’s kind of where I, for me, that’s kind of what my vision is for where we’re going.

Shannon: I really like that. I mean, it’s nice that you are excited to maybe be more involved in a field that you personally care about, not that you don’t care about all of these other industries that you’re tapped into. But I think that when people work in a field in which they’re passionate about naturally, it’s something that is a really good fit. And it’s exciting every day. I think that it really seems like you are just excited for new experiences too, which is really nice because that means…

I think that there’s something really important to say about how you mentioned of being more choosy because I think that I lost my train of thought. I think that a lot of people, what they don’t consider when being wary of that is that when you do choose a field that does not mean or that you want to pinpoint a field does not mean that you can’t accept clients outside of that. That just means that you’re focusing on the specific thing. There are still always going to be people that come up to you from another industry and ask you if you can do things for them. And you don’t have to say no. You can say no if you think that it’s really not a good fit. But I think that people don’t consider that that will still happen regardless of if you are laser focused on something just because you’re I mean if you’re doing good work and you have reputability there are still people that are going to come up to you just from hearing about you.

Community Focus and Referral Strategy

Deirdre: Right and we ever since I started my business I’ve always wanted so so our business is a model again that probably most don’t do where and I always tell this to clients, especially prospects that are thinking about potentially working with me. And actually, I’ve had people go to my website and say, I really want to work with you because of your connection to community and what you’re doing for the community. So when people choose to work with us, a portion of their dollars always goes back into the local community and to nonprofits. And sometimes it’s nonprofits that we’re always working with, or sometimes it’s the nonprofit that the client comes to me and says, Hey, I want to do this person. We want to help this person. And so that’s another piece is that finding people that I want to work with that have that same community minded responsibility is also something that we, that I’m working on in terms of and I think intuitively those people sort of come to you sort of like what you put out there is what you get back.

And I think word of mouth, especially for us, like we are one of the things we work on and we teach clients is like if you take care of your current customer base and you take care of them really well and you know everything you could possibly know about them and you’re constantly staying in touch with them even when you’re not getting money from them and that cultivation of that person you don’t have to spend as much money on marketing dollars because the person that you’re taking care of your current client is always going to keep referring you referring you referring you referring you referring to their spheres of influence and so we spend a lot of time, like, that’s why I spend so much time in my relationships because those relationships and I’m doing it in an authentic way now, because I’m looking for something in return, but doing it in an authentic way. And those keep paying dividends time and time again. I mean, it calls constantly from my clients that I’ve had for a long time constantly referring me to their vendors, to their friends, to their this, to their that, whatever. And so I think for me, it’s the authenticity and those connections and cultivation of the people that are in my network and my clients is really the most important thing for me.

Conclusion

Shannon: I really value that. And I’m happy that you said it because one, I think this is where we have to end because we’re a little over time, but that means it was a really fun conversation. So I appreciate you, but I also appreciate that you ended on that note. Something that people should really value, especially in the agency space. But I think always, and I hope that people actually listen and take that into account. I think that would be absolutely lovely. And I hope to see that more.

Deirdre: Yes. Well, I appreciate being on the show and I appreciate spending some time with you. It’s been great.

Shannon: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And thank you everyone for watching and or listening. Don’t forget to like and subscribe. Just hear more stories and learn more things like I get to do every time I do this podcast. Thank you so much.

Deirdre: Thank you. Have a good day.

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