[Fully Managed]  Alex Highsmith from Spirited Away Ep. 199

Shannon: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Fully Managed Podcast. Alex, thank you for joining me today. I really appreciate it.

Alex: Thank you so much for having me.

Shannon: Perfect. So today, we’re going to start with a game as per usual. This game is curated for you. I hope that you have fun with it. We went over it before, but for everyone that is watching, this game is called “A Drink Here, A Drink There.” So I want you, Alex, to create a drink for each of these settings. Some of them are very random and maybe you wouldn’t be drinking in these scenarios, but like drinking—I don’t even have time to have a drink in these scenarios.

Alex: No, no, no. Shannon, there’s always a drink. There’s always room for a drink. I think that’s why it will be fun.

Game: A Drink Here, A Drink There

The Apocalypse

Shannon: Okay, so first, the apocalypse.

Alex: Well, as a sober person, I always joke that maybe the end of the world is when I decide to start drinking again. I wouldn’t really, I’ve been sober for like nine years, but—

Shannon: These can be non-alcoholic or alcoholic.

Alex: Totally, yeah. Just in that particular scenario, they’ll always be non-alcoholic for me, except maybe the end of the world. So maybe I’d probably do like a shot and a beer for the end of the world.

Shannon: Yes, that’s perfect.

Alex: Yeah. If I do drink, that’s my drink because I just want to get it out of the way.

Shannon: Exactly. Form and function.

Alex: Yeah, exactly.

An Aquarium

Shannon: Okay, the next one. This one is more tame. An aquarium.

Alex: Oh, I love that. I used to love those really tacky fishbowl cocktails in college, like at the Korean restaurant, like karaoke, but we’ll do a non-alcohol and we’ll make it blue. We’ll put some like cute, there’s some like pink gins you can get at our store. And I think obviously we throw in like gummy candy.

Shannon: I love the gummy sharks. If it has a gummy shark in it, I’m getting it. I’m done.

Alex: Perfect.

The Moon

Shannon: Next one. The moon.

Alex: Oh, wow. How apropos after our girls went up in space yesterday for five minutes. I think we’d have to do, this is kind of an old reference now, even old for me, but like a Fanta, maybe like an orange-based Fanta, because that was—oh, or it was, what was the one all the astronauts drank? It was orange.

Shannon: You know, I didn’t question the Fanta thing. I actually don’t know.

Alex: Yeah, you’re younger than me. It’s called Tang. It was like the—

Shannon: I remember Tang.

Alex: Yeah, so I would do like a Tang and sort of a Tang screwdriver. That’s what I would do.

Shannon: That sounds really good. I like that one. Favorite so far in taste.

Alex: Definitely, yeah, delicious.

A Camping Trip

Shannon: Last one, a camping trip.

Alex: Oh, how sweet. I’m always cold and I go camping a lot. So I’m thinking like hot toddy by the fire, which I do with non-alcoholic whiskey. My favorite brand right now is NKD, but yeah, some natural honey, a little black tea and some whiskey, baby.

Shannon: That sounds so nice. It sounds so warm. I feel like I would feel very comforted.

Alex: Cozy.

The Psychology of Non-Alcoholic Drinks

Shannon: That actually brings me to a question that I didn’t have prepared, but I’m curious about. Do these non-alcoholic beverages, do they give you that warm feeling that alcohol does when it goes down? Curiosity, I guess.

Alex: Yeah, good question. Totally depends on the brand and the person, right? Because some people are able to, like that, just the invoking the ritual, I say, gives you all the same feelings you get when you drink. For me, it’s true. Like I sort of, I loved your game because I feel like beverages really help anchor me in time and space. And I have a theater background, so it’s like a prop. I love a prop.

Shannon: It’s such a prop.

Alex: Yeah, exactly. You know, there’s that aspect, the kind of psychosomatic aspect. And then there’s also like, there are whiskeys who add a bunch of heat elements to give you that like warming sensation. And then there’s a whole other category called functional beverages that have nootropics or plants or supplements in them that make you feel stuff. So there are some that have like a warming or a calming sensation.

Shannon: That is really cool. And I love that you said it as a prop because I always think of, I like holding a drink. I might have a drink for two hours and not even touch it, but I just like holding a drink.

Alex: It makes you feel safe. Totally. I think it gives us all something to do with our awkward hands, especially high energy people like both of us obviously are.

Shannon: Yes. No, it is something that’s very perfect for that.

About Spirited Away

The Name’s Origin

Shannon: So Spirited Away, first thing I think of obviously Studio Ghibli, which I would think you were, okay. So is that what inspired the name?

Alex: No, not at all. So to be clear, I’m not a founder. I’m the co-owner and partner at Spirited Away and the general manager. Douglas Waters founded Spirited Away and came up with the name. And I’m blowing up his spot here, but he didn’t even know about the movie. But yeah, he just thought it was a great name, and it is. And then he got asked all the time. He had so many customers who were like, Studio Ghibli, oh my God. But yeah, no relation actually. But obviously, I mean, I freaking love that movie.

Shannon: Has he watched the movie since being asked?

Alex: Yes, and he went on a year-long trip around the world and made a point to stop at the Spirited Away Village in Japan.

Shannon: Oh, that’s so sweet. I feel like he could do some beautiful partnerships in Japan related to that.

Alex: It’s so true. And Japan has a really cool non-alc scene as well, actually.

Shannon: Yeah, no, definitely because of like Asian flush.

Alex: That’s very, I think I found out a lot about that at my previous job because a lot of people there would get that. And I didn’t know it was like a genetic thing that like a lot of Asian cultures are like less tolerant to alcohol, which I had no idea.

Shannon: It’s fascinating, right? It’s very interesting, especially since I found out Irish people, which I am very, have a similar thing, but apparently they’re known for drinking, which is very funny.

Alex: Irish people just drink through it.

Shannon: Yeah. They just don’t get it. I’m an Irish girl as well. We’re from McGuire’s on all my mom’s side.

Alex: Yeah. I’m a Donnelly. So I, they’re everywhere.

Alex’s Journey to Spirited Away

Acting Background and Early Career

Shannon: But so I want to know more about, and I’m sure the audience would love to know, about your background in coming into this field. I think that would be something that, so I’d love to hear your story if you could share.

Alex: I’d love to. Thank you for the opportunity. I’ll try to keep it concise. It’s pretty random. I think I’m like a good example of just being opportunistic and saying yes, even if you don’t know how to do the thing yet. So I went to acting school in Boston at a very fine conservatory at the time. I graduated in 2011, joined a traveling Shakespeare company and performed Shakespeare for all sorts of audiences, 2,000 person audiences at, you know, the biggest stages in Nashville and New Orleans and D.C., all over. Mississippi, the Midwest as well, South Dakota. We also performed at like prisons and libraries with like two people. So it was super varied.

Struggles in New York

Alex: And then I moved to New York City and maybe a trigger warning for some people, but I started to really, I lost my way. Acting business was really hard. A lot of rejection. I wasn’t in school anymore. I got into the service industry. I was already, I had had jobs all through college working at coffee shops and restaurants. So I went back to the service industry. Big part of the service industry for a lot of people is drinking and the camaraderie you have with your fellow suffering servers and the drinks are a huge benefit, especially if you’re young and poor. So I really leaned into that, kind of lost my way, pulled a geographic, which some people will understand, which is moving to solve your problems, which never works. You know, wherever you go, there you are.

Seattle and Recovery

Alex: So I found myself in Seattle.

Shannon: Oh, I love Seattle.

Alex: Me too. What a beautiful city. I was there because I have some family there. So I was leaning on them and working at a Seahawks stadium bar during the Russell Wilson years. That was really crazy.

Shannon: Awesome and sounds horrible.

Alex: Oh, yeah. But anyway, I just really learned how to hustle. And I did, for all intents and purposes, still fall in love with the service industry. I just like the theatricality of it. Like there’s props, there’s a backstage, there’s a front of stage, there’s like all sorts of cool stuff like that. But again, I couldn’t really get a handle on my drinking. So I moved back home to Utah to dry out. Not Mormon, by the way, for what it’s worth. I think people usually wonder when you say you’re from Utah and you bring up drinking, but not Mormon.

Return to New York and New Beginnings

Alex: And from there, get into the interesting part of the story now and I’ll wrap it up. But I started, I quit drinking and suddenly my whole life started to open up again. I got an offer from an old friend I went to school with who was directing something off Broadway. So I had a chance to get back in the city and I had been long distance dating my then fiancé, my now fiancé, but we just met. And I said, hey, I need somewhere to stay for like three months while I do this show. And he was like, okay, sure. So I moved in, never moved out. That was like ten years ago.

Coffee Shop to Pet Food Sales

Alex: But I got a job at a coffee shop and I really wanted to stay away from alcohol and the service industry. Coffee shop was the closest thing I could get. From that job, from just doing kind of the best I could, I made friends with a lot of really interesting regulars and one of them owned a small independent pet food company and he needed a sales rep. And I didn’t know how to do that, but he knew I knew how to work a room because I knew everybody’s name at that coffee shop. And I was falling in love with New York City all over again, the cool small businesses and the owners and everybody’s all mixed together. So I started working for him as just like a trade show rep and over the next six years became his head of sales for the Northeast.

Alex: And the crux of that business was that they only worked with small businesses. There was no Amazon. There was no big box stores. It was a brand for independent small retailers, which is a dying breed in America, as I’m sure you know. And I love small business. I just fell in love. I realized I wanted to own a small business because that was always what I was missing in New York was like feeling like I had a piece of it. Any of these big cities, I feel like, you know, you just kind of want to conquer them. I do anyway.

Creating Community and Finding Spirited Away

Alex: So I got the sales job. I was learning about small businesses and I started a sober women’s group. It was called Sober Sally’s. I got all my friends, so COVID hit right. I was very open about my sobriety. I had lots of DMs coming to me from all my friends individually being like I want to talk about alcohol but I don’t know how and I was like let’s get together so we all started getting together on Zoom. From that group I learned about this weird store that sold only non-alcoholic beverages and I was like so lit up about it. Like I could not imagine after basically drinking seltzer at bars and I continued to go out. I still like going out. I like taking advantage of everything the city has to offer.

Alex: I met, so I went into Spirited Away. I had a really emotional response as soon as I walked in. I was just like, holy crap, like I can have everything here and I don’t feel like I’m missing out. Like everything is gorgeous. These are made so nicely, intentionally. And last part of the story is I told the owner, Douglas, that I really wanted to be involved and he didn’t have a job for me at the time. Small business, super strapped, all that. But I kept hanging out and he eventually told me he was planning on taking a year long trip around the world. Would I like to run Spirited Away? Crazy, like really random, but he must’ve gotten a good vibe from me. And I said, yes. And I started just as general manager and then matriculated to a partner and the rest is history. And I’m sorry that took so long, but that’s the story.

Service Industry Connections

Shannon: I really loved that. It was also, I really resonate with your story on, like, a different level of the idea that I’m also very opportunistic. This is, like, such a weird parallel, but I always worked in the service industry growing up. I feel like everyone, you know, you’re in college. That’s what you do. I serially worked at pizzerias for some reason. I don’t know. I’m not Italian. I come from New Jersey and there’s a lot of Italians in New Jersey.

Alex: Oh, that’s good enough. Like, you know, you’re like honorary Italian at that point.

Shannon: But I had, I got my first like real adult job because someone really liked my service and came in a yes I didn’t even remember them there’s so many people that come in I didn’t even know who they were and they came in there like I really liked your service the last time I was here here’s a goodie bag of a bunch of products that I sell I’d love for you to come work for me and I and everyone thought that was like the strangest thing and I thought it was strange so I didn’t know people do that.

Alex: Yeah and it’s so weird because that’s like kind of exactly what happened to you.

Shannon: Yes that’s so funny well and now I do it all the time like I realize how rare it is to see a like semi young person, like really give a shit about something that is pretty inconsequential to them. Like that’s, that’s special.

The State of Customer Service

Shannon: I guess it also, I don’t know how like generationally, I guess I don’t interact with the people younger than me much because it doesn’t happen as much. But I do, I did notice an insane appreciation for my customer service solely because people weren’t getting that otherwise. And I think that’s so, it’s sad actually. Like it’s kind of sad because I’m just being nice. Like I just see myself as being like a normal person.

Alex: Totally. You’re not doing much extra.

Shannon: I know. And I feel like I, it makes me kind of sad actually, like this to the future of the service industry, like not giving like a shit. I hope they do. I hope that that’s not everywhere. I know it’s not because people are nice to me all the time, but like.

Alex: People are nice. I think it’s also a mix of like places need to pay their workers the right amount for them to care.

Shannon: Yeah. You have to care. Money is value. Money is energy. Yeah. I really believe that. And you’ve got to give. So I, it also shows when you’ve worked for somebody like you and I now if we ever manage people which I do I’m very sensitive to the fact that I’ve been managed and I want to be treated like they’re treated and yeah I think that that translates but also yeah it’s just fun it makes any job more fun when you’re nice people like it it’s a good time.

Alex: Exactly. If you feel, I think when you feel important and valued at your job, then you’re more likely to like care. I mean, like when people, you can go into a place and know that everyone loves working there. Like you can feel it.

Shannon: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah.

Educating Customers About Non-Alcoholic Options

Shannon: Well, so speaking of, okay. So I’m sure having so much passion for Spirited Away that you do love working and like co-owning. So have a bunch of questions about this so first one how do you go about educating people about like the like there’s this is probably so much education around it like a lot of people are wondering like the first question that I had of like does it does it feel warm going down.

Alex: Yeah, so many questions. Education is the name of the game. It’s Spirited Away. And it’s why in all premium retail, like this is the same in dog food. It’s the same with shoes. It’s the same with anything. If you want to nerd out, you need to go to the specialty store where the nerds work, right? Or like, you know, a really high, it’s usually the higher quality spots that can take a little more time with customers.

Alex: So that’s what we do at Spirited Away. We’ve obviously, every year we’re busier by a lot. I think we were 38% busier, 38% growth year over year at this point. And that’s been consistent the last five years. So it’s getting busier, which means more questions, but also less time for customers sometimes. But there’s tons of good resources. But usually we start with what do you like to drink? And it doesn’t have to be alcohol because we have a lot of people come in who’ve never drank before in their lives. A lot of Muslim customers, a lot of just like East Asia, like that. A lot of parts of the world people don’t drink, never had. I mean, like what’s your favorite cocktail doesn’t mean anything to them.

Alex: So starting with like what’s important to them. I love working at Spirited Away and in this industry, because you very quickly cut the bullshit. It’s very much like people come in and they’re like, I’m looking for a change. I’m looking to mix things up. I need something that I’ve never done before. I’m new. And it’s like, you’re just really talking about their habits and their rituals very quickly before you even know their names sometimes. But yeah, it’s a lot of equating what they do know about beverage and liquids that they enjoy and then finding a way in. Because we have about 230 products at Spirited Away right now, which is a wide selection. It is by no means the whole selection. There’s thousands of products. We get dozens of samples as do all the non-alcoholic bottle shops. These like sort of specialty educational hubs. There’s lots of us around the country now.

Shannon: That is really well one that’s lovely to hear because I think that that is there’s so many reasons that people don’t drink whether it’s sobriety or religion or just the stage of their life that they’re in or they do drink and they just like not like drinking things that are like drinking, but not drinking.

Alex: That’s it. Exactly.

Classes and Events

Shannon: And so it’s really nice to know that there’s so many options out there too. Do you guys offer like classes for making drinks kind of thing? I was always like, that’s, that was something.

Alex: That’s such a good question we’ve hosted cocktail classes in the past usually we pair with brands and they lead them and they base it around their drinks or their liquids their spirits. Spirited Away, we are primarily just a retail space which is so interesting, because we have such a great name and reputation, I think, in the industry, being like one of the first and longest around. But most of these small businesses that are like ours, there’s one in every major city, at least now. They make a lot of revenue by flexing the space for things like classes, events, tastings. It’s just a great revenue stream and a way to maximize. You’re paying rent for 24 hours a day. You might as well use the space as much as possible.

Alex: Spirited Away doesn’t do as many of those. We found because of us being in downtown Manhattan, we can kind of act as like a flagship so we actually do more like brand activations in the space which has been I’m sure you talk about those all the time on this podcast but it was a big learning opportunity for me and a cool one it’s been cool to see.

Choosing Brands to Work With

Shannon: How are you able to choose the brands that you want to work with and knowing that so many come up to you like what how do you narrow it down what’s like your thought process when doing that.

Alex: That’s a nice question. We are very blessed to have a lot of inbounds. And as someone who also works in the field selling this stuff, one brand in particular, Pentire, into bars and restaurants, I know how fucking hard it is. So I know that outbound life. I know the inbound life. It must be sad to have to say no when you know how they’re feeling. I do it, but I also know it’s just business, and I hope they know it. But I always try to be kind and to give a real response. I always respond, even if it’s a week or two later. I always try to respond.

Alex: That actually reminds me of something. First, it has to taste good and fill a need. I really choose now based on a number of factors: flavor, scalability like can they afford to kind of we only have to service downtown New York City but a lot of our customers are international or visiting so it’s great if a brand has more brand awareness and market expansion than that but doesn’t have to be we have a lot of craft brands that only do New York City right now. I’m really looking for something that’s different, a founder that’s really passionate and cool and wants to be involved in the retail experience and like a story, hopefully a true story. If it’s really good and made up, that’s also fine. But like, you’re not going to get caught for the made up.

Shannon: Yeah. Go off sis. You know, you’re into acting. I mean, entertain me, but I think there are so many duplicative brands right now. Like, seriously thousands that the story and that stuff has to be captivating for us to sell it to our customers.

Alex: Yeah no that makes a lot of sense.

Market Saturation

Shannon: Is there any part of like the non-alcoholic industry that is saturated like are there is there like one specific part of it that’s like really there’s so much coming out right now or like anything like that I’m just kind of curious.

Alex: Your questions are so good and like insightful I think. Yes there are. I see the bitter red, this is very specific, but the bitter red aperitif category.

Shannon: Oh, that’s so interesting.

Alex: It sounds random, but I’ll tell you why. It’s because it’s a beautiful color, so it just looks great in bottles. And the bitter factor is one of the closest things you can get to the piquancy of alcohol like that. Bitter aperitivos, you pace yourself with them. You don’t slam those so they’re really attractive as like a proxy. There are so many and I’m kind of bored of it, to be honest. I think they’ve been done amazing. They’re great. I don’t think people should stop innovating, but I think we also like, I just, I want to see a little more interesting stuff.

Alex: There’s also like every beer has been made.

Shannon: Yes, because non-alcoholic beer is even big in the big beer industry. I know even my sister would drink non-alcoholic beer, not knowing about all of these other options that they have.

Alex: Exactly. Athletic Brewing did a lot for the industry. They were acquired in part by Dr. Pepper a couple years ago, so they got that DP money, and they did a Super Bowl ad. And I always talk about this Super Bowl ad because it was awesome in how sort of understated it was. I don’t know if you remember, it was two years ago. I don’t watch football, but I watched it. And it was just it was like a woman at a bar at like halftime watching a game. And she said, Can I have an athletic? And the guy said, yep. And he put it on the table. And that was the ad. And it was very much just like no big deal. Like order an athletic. It’s kind of ubiquitous with like a non-alc now. And nobody’s going to make a fuss. No one’s going to call you out for not drinking. You’re just being with everybody else. I thought that was genius.

Alex: But it’s so easy to make non-alc beer. Most of these people are already making it. You just de-alc it, which is not nothing. It’s a relatively time-consuming and expensive process, but you can get it pretty close. But that being said, I don’t think beer is oversaturated because everybody loves their region’s beer. And I think there’s room for it.

Shannon: No, I definitely understand that because thinking about the sheer amount of craft beers that exist that are non-alcoholic, that are alcoholic, I can probably see that the non-alcoholic beers can’t even withstand, they can’t even surmount to the amount of—

Alex: No, not even close yet, yeah. Exactly.

Social Dynamics of Ordering Non-Alcoholic Drinks

Shannon: That’s so interesting because I actually love what you said about the commercial because I do. And maybe this is because I’m overtly socially conscious at all times. Like I’m always worried that I’m like doing something wrong. Being in the service industry and having worked in bars, my biggest worry when ordering something non-alcoholic is like, oh, the server’s going to be mad at me because my bill will not be as much as someone else’s. Do you ever feel that way?

Alex: Yeah. I think about that all the time. I do. And I think I still get that at bars. I feel like there’s a lot of American shade around not drinking. Hip culture, unfortunately, makes people angry at each other for no reason. And it’s unfortunate that that is what people live off of because that’s just how our country works. It’s kind of capitalism’s fault. Here we are talking about capitalism, so it’s fine. We’re trying to find our niche, right?

Alex: I mean, this has been done, you were talking about like beer has been done forever. It’s so standard in Europe too, like Germany and Spain. I was just there last summer. You can ask for alcohol, like everybody gets it. They don’t have a lot of choices, but they just put it down. It’s very common because they just want to get people together. Like it’s just important to be together and drinking and eating. It’s not about what you’re drinking and eating or getting fucked up. So I think like that culture is coming over a little more.

Premium Non-Alcoholic Options in Hospitality

Alex: But also, yeah, there’s a huge I was just on a hospitality school podcast at Johnson and Wales there. They have a big, beautiful hospitality program and they’re really into non-alcoholic. And it’s very important to let like all the service industry people here know that there are fine non-alcoholic options down by fine. I mean, capital F like premium options that you can charge about 75 to 85% of what you charge for your regular craft cocktail menu and people won’t get mad at you anymore. You might have to say, maybe it won’t be right for your bar or restaurant, too. You have to be a little nicer, I think. It’s not like vodka soda land. But if you’re a place where people are into it, you can say, well, look, it takes extra work to de-alcoholize the products. And our bartender and bar director worked really hard on it. It’s a beautiful thing. And then you can charge that much. So I’m excited for that.

Alex: But to answer your question, yes, I feel so self-conscious. I still feel self-conscious not drinking sometimes. It’s like a people-pleasing thing. You want to give people the right to give you something.

Shannon: Sometimes you even like compensate with a larger tip because I’m not—

Alex: Yes I feel like I’m like oh I like should I even do that that’s not really fair but like I it is like I just I’m so conscious of the fact that people are living off of this money and it’s I know you know the more you know about it the more it’s so it’s so funny because people that aren’t educated on it or like just don’t care oh they won’t even tip it’s crazy.

Shannon: Yeah no I was just that that is it’s really cool to know that the industry is expanding to the fact that you know like you are still kind of like maybe it sucks to pay a premium price but it’s also really nice to be able to still have that camaraderie not be like judged or yeah you know because people love the act of going to a bar a lot of the time like maybe it’s not even drinking but it’s like that ritual.

Alex: Yes. I don’t miss alcohol. I don’t want to drink it anymore, but I work really hard to make some disposable income. I also made the choice not to have children. So I live in the second most expensive city in the world. I like spending my money on fun shit. Beautiful, your life is only so short I mean yeah man and like I’m doing all the other stuff too and saving and giving to charity and volunteering but a part of my part of my life is is engaging with the economy in a way that gives me joy and that that is one of the ways so I don’t get mad and there are I mean there are so many beautiful bars that are really with it too so for as bleak as I make it sound sometimes it’s really awesome.

Conclusion

Shannon: No, I really love, I love hearing that too. And I think that there is, sometimes I think it’s sad for a lot of people to not realize that there’s so many ways to enjoy life without having to drink. And I think that having those options of, because I think that you know those settings are so common and that people think that they’re the only option sometimes like in your area there might they might be one of the only options to like go out and have fun like there’s not totally true the base things so to have just the option of non-alcoholic or like you’re not just getting water all night or like whatever to hang out with your friends or or go and do something and you know feel comfortable and to see that expand is is just really wonderful.

Alex: Oh, yeah, you nailed it. Well, this is I think it was the perfect way to end because a little bit of a wholesome note and we’re like right up at time. So this is so fun. Thank you for sharing so much about this industry because it is really something so cool to me. I’m really happy that, you know, you were able to come on because I love exploring this. It was, it’s, you asked such like lovely questions and your curiosity is so, it really inspires me. And if you’re ever downtown Manhattan, please, please, please stop by. I’d love to commandeer you for a couple hours and taste you through what we’ve got to offer.

Shannon: I would absolutely love that. I have a friend in Hoboken, so I go to New York like every once in a while.

Alex: Oh yeah, hit me up, hit me up. That would be great.

Shannon: Thank you. Thank you so much. And thank you, everyone, for watching. I hope that you get to explore these options as well. That would be really lovely. Check out Spirited Away. You will have the link in the description. And thank you so much for your participation as well, listening. And thanks, Alex, for joining me again. This was absolutely lovely.

Alex: Absolutely. Thanks, Shannon. Thank you. And thank you, everyone.

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